The Right of Secession... History forgotten...

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Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power

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Obviously the downfall of the Confederacy

There is always a right of secession and the U.N. and U.S. has recognized it.

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There is always a right of secession and the U.N. and U.S. has recognized it.

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Considering the UN came into existence eight decades later, I don't see the relevance. James Madison and men of his generation did not believe in nullification or secession as rights

You can’t make gun powder out of cotton seed.

Revolution is no more or less than an act of forced secession. You are merely using terms. We seceded from our country in the 1700's. America's first civil war was far more nasty than the second. With the night rider murders and people being burned in their homes. Especially in South Carolina where most people were loyalists. The Loyalists were the more affluent and established and pillars in the communities. And under the law they held the moral high ground. That war was also had a racial conflict element. With the blacks generally favoring the King and the Loyalists. And blacks fought openly for the British and worked for them building defenses. When they lost and started retreating there was a mad rush by blacks to get to NY and escape to England by ship and many, many did.

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There was never a right to secession

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Yes there was.

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“Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions,” the former written by Madison and the latter by Jefferson. In the course of this battle, Jefferson privately expressed the belief that if no other remedy proved effective in protecting free speech, then secession might have to be considered. At first, he rejected secession when it was suggested to him in 1798, but then he changed his mind. On August 23, 1799, he expressed to Madison his hope that all would be well. “Before it shall be too late,” he mused, it seemed likely to him that the “good sense of the American people” would “rally with us round the true principles of our federal compact.” But, he continued, “were we to be disappointed in this,” then he and Madison and like-minded people should stand “determined … to sever ourselves from the union we so much value, rather than give up the rights of self-government.”

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YES... there was

Texas v. White

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James Madison and men of his generation did not believe in nullification or secession as rights

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Look up the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions, and who the authors were.

America was dominated by Jeffersonian Democracy from 1800 until 1860. The Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions of 1798 written by Jefferson and Madison were declarations of the principle that the federal government must not violate the rights of the states. Thomas Jefferson opposed the ratification of the U.S. Constitution and believed it was every state's right to leave the Union which it had freely joined. The reason why Jefferson's opposition to the ratification of the Constitution is relevant is because the Constitution represented a stronger Union. A strong Federal Government with rights reserved specifically for the national interests. Jefferson supported the "Articles of Confederation" which called for a less formal association between the states, with the federal government unable to act without the unanimous consensus of the states.

On secession, Jefferson opposed the decision to bring General Washington out of retirement and sending him to New England to put down Shay's rebellion. Jefferson, who was serving as America's representative in Paris at the time, thought it was reasonable, even healthy, for the citizens of New England to rebel.

In 1787, Thomas Jefferson wrote two letters, one to Madison and the other to William Smith, concerning Shay's rebellion and his disagreement with Congress's decision to bring General George Washington out of retirement and send him to New England to put down the rebellion.

Jefferson Letter to Madison Jan 30, 1787
"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."

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Jefferson to William Smith Nov 13, 1787
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. "

George Washington was against a state having the right to leave the Union. Madison initially allied with Washington but later took on Jefferson's views. The founding fathers discussed the issue in detail, but they did not agree on the subject. Tberefore, it was common thought by many people up to the time of the Civil War that a state did have the right to secede. There wasn't a great cry in the North against and even some support of the South's right to secede until the firing on Fort Sumter. That galvanized most Northern opinion against the South.

BTW: Many of Washington and Jefferson's ancestors served in the Confederate Army.