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1
Posted on 3/1/22 at 9:47 pm to Bluegrass_Cat
quote:
see. Once you decided upon Christianity, though, how did you come to Catholicism?
Read the church fathers and compared what I saw at services. What most looked like what they were describing at the start of Christianity. It definitely was not like any protestant church, it sounded like orthodox or Catholic. My biggest issue was Mary, but I came to peace with it after study and research.
This post was edited on 3/1/22 at 9:56 pm
Posted on 3/1/22 at 9:54 pm to aubie101
Thank you for your openness.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:01 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Disagree.
You shouldn't need the government to be the one instilling religious values into people, they suck at virtually everything.
We certainly have a values issue, but it's 100% a nation-wide parental issue imo. There's a lot of good parents out there, there's just a lot more crappy ones.
So many butthurt Christians, so few rebuttals...
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:07 pm to sacrathetic
quote:
I'm a former atheist that agrees with you. I'm still wrestling with God on a personal level, but I now see the folly of my past beliefs and am working towards becoming a better person for myself, my family, and society.
How did you come to such a realization? (Please say Jordan Peterson). Seriously though, if you don’t mind.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:10 pm to TulaneFan
How do you explain Japan, Singapore, etc.---Not exactly Christian dominated nations.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:10 pm to TexanTiger68
quote:That says more about people than it says about God.
I'm a former atheist that agrees with you. I'm still wrestling with God on a personal level, but I now see the folly of my past beliefs and am working towards becoming a better person for myself, my family, and society.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:13 pm to tiggerfan02 2021
quote:
Every metric related to crime and civil society/morality can be seen going in the wrong direction since 1963. I will leave it to the astute scholars of the board to determine what happened in 1963.
Either Engel v. Vitale or the Fox Theatre in Greenville, SC opened on a Sunday…
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:19 pm to Eurocat
quote:Good god man. Listen to Jordan Peterson’s biblical lectures or something. Do you think something has to physically happen for it to be true?
The measuring stick for Christians is a belief in a book with many "chapters" one of which says there was a guy named Noah who built an Ark and all the animals in the world rode around on it.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:20 pm to TulaneFan
The problem is that many people have replaced god/religion with equally nonsensical but far more harmful sacred beliefs.
Nothing any religious person has ever said is more nonsensical than claiming men can be women if they want.
Nothing any religious person has ever said is more nonsensical than claiming men can be women if they want.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:21 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Yes, like modern medicine.
The problem is that many people have replaced god/religion with equally nonsensical but far more harmful sacred beliefs.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:21 pm to TulaneFan
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:25 pm to aubie101
quote:You skipped historic, confessional, Protestantism! Oh well, glad you’re a Christian now!
Read the church fathers and compared what I saw at services. What most looked like what they were describing at the start of Christianity. It definitely was not like any protestant church, it sounded like orthodox or Catholic. My biggest issue was Mary, but I came to peace with it after study and research.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:29 pm to TulaneFan
Religion is the foundation of morals. Atheists believe government is their moral compass
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:48 pm to WreckinRams05
quote:Well some of them think it's "logic" "reason" and "rationality". But humans are not rational. The individual who believes they are and that their life is truly ruled by logic exists in a deep state of denial. Humans are pleasure seeking. We do irrational things to make us feel good. Furthermore, anything under the sun can be rationalized. I could rationalize having kids or not having kids as the logical choices. The truth is I probably made an emotional decision and rationalized it after the fact. On the macro, societal mores of right and wrong can be pushed absolutely anywhere with no framework.
Atheists believe government is their moral compass
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:52 pm to Gaggle
quote:
On the macro, societal mores of right and wrong can be pushed absolutely anywhere
Well, yeah. And that’s exactly what we’ve seen throughout human history
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:56 pm to Roger Klarvin
Our narrative of history is framed a certain way by people to push societal mores. One of which being that religion is oppressive and primitive. It doesn't matter if you agree or not that religion is oppressive and primitive. It is framed that way, and if it was still framed the way it was in 1843, the odds are much lower you would have that viewpoint right now.
Eta: For example there is a heavy focus on Galileo, Spanish inquisition. So boom these pop into every educated person's mind. There could be instead more focus on Christianity bringing literacy and civilization, which few of our educated kids know anything about.
Eta: For example there is a heavy focus on Galileo, Spanish inquisition. So boom these pop into every educated person's mind. There could be instead more focus on Christianity bringing literacy and civilization, which few of our educated kids know anything about.
This post was edited on 3/1/22 at 11:14 pm
Posted on 3/1/22 at 10:57 pm to Suntiger
quote:
How about we just teach our children to be decent people.
Like the ways of the ancient ones... In the before time.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 11:25 pm to Revelator
quote:
It’s not simply just canceling God, but also a frantic attempt to divest ourselves of all moral standards.
They’re inextricably linked.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 11:49 pm to Azkiger
quote:
So many butthurt Christians, so few rebuttals...
No "butthurt" here, but I'll bite.
Thomas Sowell hit the mark on "First Principle"; check out his wise and eloquent response to the question of "would you (Sowell) like to debate Barack Obama"? Sowell replied "No, that it would be useless and counterproductive" (paraphrase).
Cliffs: Once one CHOOSES a (polar) First Principle, all argument/ideas then spring from that particular 'well' and moves AWAY from the other polar First Principal Idea. In fact, the dialogue between two or more individuals who come from opposite First Principles becomes counter-productive. I.e., inflammatory moving toward conflict. Which is exactly what we now see in the Political/Religion Idea debate.
There are 'Religion' and 'Government' and People. And there is the Idea (First Principle) of God, and the Opposite (no god). The Idea of God is that there is innate self-awareness (by degree) in the manifestation of Universal Energy/Matter; Matter being derivative of Energy. People are a limited (think imperfect/evil) manifestation of Energy/Matter and are 'self-aware' to the degree of their relative, collective cognizant ability. That is self-affirming, and obvious to all. Descartes' "I know that I am", comes to mind. God's "I am that I am", on an infinite scale (infinity being incomprehensible by limited, self-aware Beings.
Religion and Government are but reflections of People's Ideas and intentions. And People are 'Evil'; I.e., their imperfection in perception (think First Principle) of and action toward said First Principle. The 'fruits' of Religion, Government and People (individuals) are but IMPERFECT manifestations of imperfect Institutions. So if you are judging the IDEA OF GOD, by the fruits of those who purport to believe and serve said God (God defines It's-Self as perfect LOVE/Unity, as does Quantum Theoretical 'String Theory'. Jesus exhorted his Believers to believe in, serve and PROMOTE the Idea of Love (NOT Religion or Government, as such are inclined to Evil/"power corrupts") but plan old homegrown LOVE. From the 'heart' (believing Mind) and out through the eyes and actions of said believing individual. The degree (unlimited potential) of Love in an individual will be the metric of 'Judgment' into the manifestation of an individual's 'next life' (Heaven/"many mansions"), IMO. Justly so, "reaping that which WE sew", as our being is a gift of potential 'Heaven' from Our Creator. Or Hell ('Hell' being the Opposite of Love) depending on one's personal preference.
Bottom line: If you are attempting to 'know' God, then your BELIEF will be THE determining. Perception becomes Reality. Scripture says that "He that seeks to know God, must FIRST BELIVE that He (God) exists". No Belief...no god. And I stand by my statement of "no hope", that one's 'self-aware' (Self) will continue to exist. It (the Self) will be absorbed back into the Universal (either Self Aware God, or no) 'Reservoir' and cease to be. Jesus said "he that seeks to save himself shall lose himself...". That is a riddle. A lot of the Bible is. Because one's First Principal CHOICE, DETERMINES REALITY.
For the 'record', I CHOOSE to believe that minus the will and choice to believe, there will be no perceptive clarity or faith in a chosen 'Belief'. And without the Spirit of Jesus' Mercy and effect of "The (His) Holy Spirit", belief will succumb to non-belief. The philosopher William James wrote an excellent essay re "The Will to Believe"; it shows that there are some things that will not happen UNTIL belief is established.
Good luck. Hope you find Love. Enjoy the ride, Brother...for as long as it (you/me) lasts. Likely not too much longer, as is in this form.
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