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The REAL torture of US Servicemen in Vietnam, began when the Cubans showed up.

Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:07 am
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
78421 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:07 am
As we celebrate our new relationship with Cuba, let's take a moment to remember this forgotten chapter of US/Cuban relations. These guys didn't pay lip service to "enhanced interrogations" they beat you until you bled out and died. They were sadists first and intelligence officers second. And it's just a TINY FRACTION of what they did to the Cuban people, tens of thousands of whom were tortured and killed.

Some of you may remember the brutal scenes of torture and murder of our pilots as depicted in the vastly underrated film "Hanoi Hilton".

But for the most part, not many people know about this. While we all make cigar jokes and look forward to $50 hotels and an endless supply of "perfect 10" $20 hookers in Havana, let's stop to remember who these guys are.

LINK
quote:

Documents reveal that Cubans not only tortured and killed a number of American POWs in Vietnam, but may have also taken several POWs to Cuba in the mid-1960s. The POWs, mostly pilots, were reportedly imprisoned in Las Maristas, a secret Cuban prison run by Castro's G-2 intelligence service.


quote:

His body was ripped and torn everywhere; "hell- cuffs" appeared almost to have severed the wrists, strap marks still wound around the arms all the way to the shoulders, slivers of bamboo were embedded in the bloodied shins and there were what appeared to be tread marks from the hose across the chest, back and legs. Fidel smashed a fist into the man's face, driving him against the wall. Then he was brought to the center of the room and made to get down onto his knees. Screaming in rage, Fidel took a length of rubber hose from a guard and lashed it as hard as he could into the man's face. The prisoner did not react; he did not cry out or even blink an eye. Again and again, a dozen times, smashed the man's face with the hose. He was never released.(10)

Air Force ace Major James Kasler was also tortured by "Fidel" for days on end during June 1968. "Fidel" beat Kasler across the buttocks with a large truck fan belt until "he tore my rear end to shreds." For one three-day period, Kasler was beaten with the fan belt every hour from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. and kept awake at night. "My mouth was so bruised that I could not open my teeth for five days." After one beating, Kasler's buttocks, lower back, and legs hung in shreds. The skin had been entirely whipped away and the area was a bluish, purplish, greenish mass of bloody raw meat.(



LINK
quote:

Almost daily for one year, the man the POWs nicknamed Fidel whipped them with strips cut from rubber tires until their buttocks "hung in shreds, and trussed them in ropes and wires to tear at limbs and cut into flesh. Fidel was one of three Cubans sent to North Vietnam by Havana to deal with American POWs, in what became known as the Cuba Program.


quote:

Sketchy versions of the story of "Fidel" appeared in a handful of US publications from 1973, soon after Hanoi began freeing American POWs, until mid-1977, but the tale drew little attention. Perhaps that was because most POWs obeyed Pentagon orders to keep quiet, to protect POWs who might remain in Vietnam, and perhaps because Fidel's identification as a Cuban was then only an unconfirmed allegation by the POWs.

But now the newly released DPMO documents, the book Honor Bound by Stuart Rochester and Frederick Kiley, and Herald interviews with Hubbard, Bomar and three other Fidel victims provide the fullest account yet of a significant chapter in the history of Vietnam-era POWs.



Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
98607 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:11 am to
Dude...that was, like, years ago...
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
98844 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:12 am to
True to your word, my morning buzz has been killed.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
78421 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:15 am to
Hey, we move on. History doesn't stop. But let's at least REMEMBER.
Posted by Rickety Cricket
Premium Member
Member since Aug 2007
46883 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:16 am to
Japanese soldiers also tortured POWs. We should embargo Japan.
Posted by Radiojones
The Twilight Zone
Member since Feb 2007
10728 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:21 am to
Different guys are in charge now in Japan.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89493 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:23 am to
quote:

Japanese soldiers also tortured POWs.


We killed them, burned them and nuked their cities. They surrendered. We EXECUTED Tojo.

Cuba just waited us out. Economically and diplomatically, we just surrendered to them.

It boggles the imagination that people just blithely buy into this.

The same guy that agreed to allow Russia to park missiles 90 miles off our coast is laughing his demented, bearded head off right now.

This post was edited on 12/20/14 at 9:25 am
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67745 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:26 am to
If relations were normalized and Cuba was flooded with tourist, wouldn't the Cuban people talking to these outsiders come to realize how bad their government screwed them?

Wouldn't this hasten the demise of the Cuban regime?
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
98607 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:26 am to
Upvote for you
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
58110 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:27 am to
I would rather we trade with Cuba and then China.
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48294 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:29 am to
The communist government of North Vietnam allowed the atrocities to occur while our folks were in their custody. They share the blame.

And yet, we are good friends and trading partners with Vietnam today.

It's illogical to be full trading partners with the nation that HOSTED the atrocities, but, embargo the nation that sent operatives that were involved in the atrocities. Both nations should be treated similarly.
Posted by Pettifogger
Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
Member since Feb 2012
79143 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:31 am to
quote:

Different guys are in charge now in Japan.



Do people really think the regime in Cuba is akin to that we saw during the height of the cold war? Really?
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48294 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:35 am to
quote:

The same guy that agreed to allow Russia to park missiles 90 miles off our coast is laughing his demented, bearded head off right now.



You are well aware of the endless atrocities perpetrated on US military personnel by Red China during the Korean War, 1950 - 1953.

And yet, the US and China have enjoyed good relations since 1972.

It's illogical to be good buddies with the likes of Red China and Communist Vietnam and continue the current treatment of Cuba.

I'm saying that our policy towards all should be consistent, rather than advocating what that policy should be.

China and Vietnam probably committed far more atrocities against our people than did Cuba.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89493 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:36 am to
quote:

It's illogical to be full trading partners with the nation that HOSTED the atrocities, but, embargo the nation that sent operatives that were involved in the atrocities. Both nations should be treated similarly.


I'm not going to deny that there is some support for this position, generally. But, I'll maintain that Cuba is different, for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is its proximity to U.S. and the problems that Castro has caused for us, directly - overt challenges to our safety, our security and stability in the Western Hemisphere.

In Vietnam's case - yeah, they fought a dirty war, but we went over there - it's not like we didn't have experience fighting East Asians in 2 wars over the previous 20 years.

Castro brought the Cold War almost to our door - I mean do you cats realize that Havana is closer to Miami than Shreveport is to Lafayette?

Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
78421 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:37 am to
I wasn't making the case that we should/shouldn't have "normalized" relations. I think we should normalize, but only AFTER they make specific PUBLIC concessions.

I was only bringing a largely forgotten chapter of history to the board's attention. Not many people remember this.

Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48294 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:50 am to
I don't know whether Cuba will be willing to concede anything.

Obama will not ask for any concession. Perhaps congress or a future Repub POTUS will do so.

No, Ace, I don't see the logical justification for treating Cuba differently from either Red China or Communist Vietnam. You have outlined some factual distinctions, yes, I recognize these distinctions.

The US electorate has filled its suburban homes with goods made in Red China. Vietnamese goods will soon fill our homes -- home furnishings -- if it has not already happened.

Red China and Communist North Vietnam have never apologized for their atrocities and torture of our people. We asked for nothing in return for agreements to trade.

I will continue to try to understand why we would treat Cuba differently, but, right now, I don't see it.
This post was edited on 12/20/14 at 9:54 am
Posted by Hooligan's Ghost
Member since Jul 2013
5185 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 9:53 am to
what difference, at this point, does it make (?), we have to pass the fiat to find out what's in the fiat, if you like your Cuban doctor, you can keep your Cuban doctor, thank goodness the president can rely on the stupidity and lack of understanding of the American public and he doesn't need to be transparent, because after all the Cuban blockade compares to the Berlin Wall
Posted by weagle99
Member since Nov 2011
35893 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Japanese soldiers also tortured POWs. We should embargo Japan.


Castro is still alive and has power. Do the Japanese leaders from WW2 still have power?
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64433 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 10:21 am to
quote:

Posted by Rickety Cricket
Japanese soldiers also tortured POWs. We should embargo Japan.




You've made a lot of ignorant and idiotic statements on this site over the years, most of your post fit this category in fact. But this post of yours may rank as the most stupid of them all.
This post was edited on 12/20/14 at 10:22 am
Posted by Layabout
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2011
11082 posts
Posted on 12/20/14 at 10:22 am to
quote:

In Vietnam's case - yeah, they fought a dirty war


And we didn't?

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