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Message
re: The "racial impact" on the war on drugs.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 3:37 pm to navy
Posted on 8/12/14 at 3:37 pm to navy
quote:
If we had an actual war ... when a dealer was caught red-handed ... they'd simply execute him on the spot and leave his drug-dealing corpse to rot for all to see.
The war on drugs was an international attempt to stop production abroad that spilled over our borders. We give billions in military aid to foreign governments to combat drug production and distribution. Over time, this militarization has become universal and now infects law enforcement. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world thanks to this very real war.
I'm not willing to admit we have the worst population in the world, just a more fricked up system of law and justice.
1
Posted on 8/12/14 at 3:39 pm to cave canem
quote:
the impact of being arrested is worse for the poor than for the wealthy
Please do qualify this statement.
Money and influence go a lot way to making charges disappear, or receiving preferential treatment.
I know a hell of a lot of good ole boys back in La who's parents made charges disappear.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:16 pm to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
How about losing the felonious label once probation/parole is complete?
Bad idea in my opinion, recidivism rates strongly suggest this person will commit more crimes and people/employers should be warned.
quote:
How about stop arresting people for nonviolent drug offenses?
Almost no one is actually incarcerated for simple possession of drugs. Unless you legalize selling drugs this will not change.
quote:
And just because true justice has not occurred yet, what's to stop us from evolving philosophically to the point where implementation can occur
True justice is most likely where justice started, where we are now is what has evolved. I am also not so sure that value to society should not be an integral part of justice.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:20 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The war on drugs was an international attempt to stop production abroad that spilled over our borders. We give billions in military aid to foreign governments to combat drug production and distribution.
Well ... it might've fricking helped if we ever had a viable southern border, now wouldn't it?
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:27 pm to cave canem
quote:
Waive bail for low income people? Pass laws forcing employers to employ criminals? Comparing poor to wealthy is a giant red herring if you are using the traditional definition of wealthy. I would think justice is administered more on a sliding scale up the socio-economic track. This has been the norm throughout history and will continue. Administering justice by perceived worth to society is the standard, equal justice for all is a very new concept and may or may not ever come to fruition.
The comment was that drug charges have disproportionate consequences for the poor...nothing in that nonsensical paragraph contradicts that. The solution is legalization and decriminalization.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:28 pm to navy
quote:
Well ... it might've fricking helped if we ever had a viable southern border, now wouldn't it?
They will always find a way. The only reason the Mexican drug cartels exist is because the US did effectively cut off the Caribbean route. The result was a move over to Mexico where they dig tunnels under the border, catapult the drugs over, use submarines, etc. You're never going to win this "war".
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:41 pm to cave canem
quote:
Almost no one is actually incarcerated for simple possession of drugs. Unless you legalize selling drugs this will not change.
Wiki
quote:
As of 2006, 49.3% of state prisoners, or 656,000 individuals, were incarcerated for non-violent crimes. As of 2008, 90.7% of federal prisoners, or 165,457 individuals, were incarcerated for non-violent offenses.[61]
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:07 pm to navy
quote:
Well ... it might've fricking helped if we ever had a viable southern border, now wouldn't it?
It would then come through the northern border. They'll find a way. Too much of a market in the US.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:09 pm to cave canem
quote:
recidivism rates strongly suggest this person will commit more crimes and people/employers should be warned.
When you lock simple drug offenses in prison with violent offenders, you create more violent offenders. Prisons are crime incubators. We're going backward, half the population doesn't seem to care as long as it doesn't touch their neighborhood or they have enough coin to get their kids out of the system.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:19 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
When you lock simple drug offenses in prison with violent offenders, you create more violent offenders
Please provide a link to the amount of people locked up for simple possesion, this is a strawman built by the legalize it crowd.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:24 pm to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
As of 2006, 49.3% of state prisoners, or 656,000 individuals, were incarcerated for non-violent crimes. As of 2008, 90.7% of federal prisoners, or 165,457 individuals, were incarcerated for non-violent offenses
Importation of a million metric tons is non violent and this will never be legal due to tax implications if any form of legalization occurs. My question was about simple possession, people are not being locked up for non violent non distribution offenses no matter how much you try to spread that narrative.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:25 pm to cave canem
Even if they aren't being locked up, they are still being fined and put on probation and costing the taxpayers money.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:27 pm to cave canem
Click and Learn
quote:
Drug Offenders in US Prisons 2012) Federal: On Dec. 31, 2012, there were 196,574 sentenced prisoners under federal jurisdiction. Of these, 99,426 were serving time for drug offenses, 11,688 for violent offenses, 11,568 for property offenses, and 72,519 for "public order" offenses (of which 23,700 were sentenced for immigration offenses, 30,046 for weapons offenses, and 17,633 for "other"). State: On Dec. 31, 2011, there were 1,341,797 sentenced prisoners under state jurisdiction. Of these, 222,738 were serving time for drug offenses, of whom 55,013 were merely convicted for possession. There were also 717,861 serving time for violent offenses, 249,574 for property offenses, 142,230 for "public order" offenses (which include weapons, drunk driving, court offenses, commercialized vice, morals and decency offenses, liquor law violations, and other public-order offenses), and 9,392 for "other/unspecified". - See more at: https://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#sthash.AOniwdql.dpuf
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:27 pm to HempHead
quote:
Even if they aren't being locked up, they are still being fined and put on probation and costing the taxpayers money
please elaborate on how fines cost the taxpayers money
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:29 pm to cave canem
Court costs.
Plus, I'm not a fan of government revenue of any kind, so I think fines are silly as well. Better for that money to be in the private sector than some hellhole municipal coffer.
Plus, I'm not a fan of government revenue of any kind, so I think fines are silly as well. Better for that money to be in the private sector than some hellhole municipal coffer.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:35 pm to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
On Dec. 31, 2011, there were 1,341,797 sentenced prisoners under state jurisdiction. Of these, 222,738 were serving time for drug offenses, of whom 55,013 were merely convicted for possession.
Thanks, roughly 55,000 of the 1.34 million state inmates or less than 5% of state inmates are in prison for possesion. Not exactly the 40%+ you were alluding to earlier. What am I to learn here?
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:37 pm to cave canem
quote:
please elaborate on how fines cost the taxpayers money
Govt picks up the cost of their court ordered treatment in many cases. Most are done on a sliding scale, with big brother picking up the slack.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:38 pm to cave canem
I agree that simple possession should be decriminalized, however to argue that our prisons are overflowing with inmates only charged with possession is dishonest.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:39 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
please elaborate on how fines cost the taxpayers money
Govt picks up the cost of their court ordered treatment in many cases. Most are done on a sliding scale, with big brother picking up the slack
What in the heck do these two things have to do with each other?
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:42 pm to cave canem
quote:
Please provide a link to the amount of people locked up for simple possesion, this is a strawman built by the legalize it crowd.
quote:
(Drug Offenses of State Inmates in the US, 2004) According to the US Justice Department, 27.9% of drug offenders in state prisons are serving time for possession; 69.4% are serving time for trafficking offenses; and 2.7% are in for "other."
I doubt in 10 years much has changed.
LINK
Oh, while they are in prison for using or selling drugs, you're not only paying for them but their dependents. Congrats.
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