re: The only one who ever receives the death penalty from rape

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It would be a great step forward, but one your emotional position will not allow, because it does not constitute the complete and total halt to all abortion.

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My position isn't emotional. It's rational.

I believe that the only rational position to take that is consistent with the value of human life we all generally share (for humans outside the womb, at least) is that life begins at conception. If one is to hold to this position, it must also be held that it would be immoral to kill children due to the circumstances surround their conception. That's not emotional.

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Maybe this is where our disconnect lies. I find nothing moral or logical about making a 12 year old birth her own father's child.

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As I just explained, if you believe that life begins at conception, then a "rape baby" is just as much a living human being as any other child conceived in any other circumstance. Therefore, it's moral and rational to be opposed to such an abortion as it would be an abortion for any other child where the mother's life is not in danger.

The emotional argument is the one you seem to hold to, namely that it's unfair or cruel or monstrous to make a young girl (or any woman of child-rearing age) have a child that was conceived due to rape. You have offered no rational reason why abortion is morally acceptable except that it feels bad to make a girl go through with it.

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Your statement is not in line with your position. If it were factions like your and mine would agree to make exceptions for rape, incest, and the legitimate life of the mother, and eliminate the overwhelming majority of infanticide. Then we could work on the rest.

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Again, I'm in favor of incremental and continuous improvement. The issue isn't supporting initial bills that exclude rape and incest (though those issues are rationally irrelevant to the point), but that you couldn't agree to push it further than that because you've already determined that abortion for those exceptions is as far as we can go, so you'd stop there.

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The reality is that we butt heads, while the murder continues. You can no more accept the abortion of a single child, than I can accept forcing a 12 year old who has been raped, to birth that child. So, the people who are okay with murdering a child any time up to, and even after birth, enjoy free reign to murder babies.

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The divide here is one of consistency and morality. You see abortion as a moral issue because if you did, you'd see that even in the instances of rape and incest, abortion would be considered immoral. If you do see it as a moral issue, you have a problem with consistency.

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Who says I'm fine with it?

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Seems like it's acceptable to you.

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For the cases that I feel we must tolerate abortion for, I fully support the death penalty. If that doesn't reduce pregnancies from forcible rape and incest as much as possible, you tell me what would.

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I'm in agreement that those crimes should be penalized with the death penalty, or at least something harsher than a few years in prison, but I'm talking about abortions, not the crime that led to the pregnancy.

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So now we would have eliminated abortion as contraception, and instituted the most severe punishment possible for actions leading to pregnancy by rape/incest. But you still don't see my position as logical and moral.

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I didn't say your position wasn't logical or moral, but that you ultimately aren't being completely consistent. If you agree that baby steps are needed with the ultimate goal of abolishing abortion in even cases of rape and incest, I could agree with you, but you seem to stop short of that in the name of pragmatism.

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So, when a college coed loved one of yours is violently raped by a homeless man when she decided to walk home from the bar, your perspective might change.

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Please tell me you are for "common sense gun control."

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In fact, making something illegal will always result in fewer instances of whatever is made illegal.

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As always, reality disagrees with you

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. The number of abortion doctors will be reduced which will make it harder for women seeking abortions to get one

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Making abortion illegal doesn't reduce the number of coat hangers, dumbass. All it will do is make the procedure less safe, resulting in more dead women.

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There is no way more women will die than the number of children who are already aborted every day.

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Good thing I didn't say that - it will be the same number of fetuses, but many more women.

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life begins at conception. If one is to hold to this position, it must also be held that it would be immoral to kill children due to the circumstances surround their conception.

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But it is much more than just the circumstances that surround their conception, isn’t it? It’s the emotional and physical harm done, especially to a young girl. You are making what is already a terrible event into a life changing ordeal that can never really be put behind you. Even putting the child up for adoption, and pretending it never happened won’t work. How do you tell your potential husband that you actually bore your rapists child at 13?

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Therefore, it's moral and rational to be opposed to such an abortion as it would be an abortion for any other child where the mother's life is not in danger.

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And you just ignore or dismiss the immorality of forcing a woman to bear the child of their rapist? Rational? I disagree.

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Again, I'm in favor of incremental and continuous improvement.

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Not really. I believe a majority of Americans support doing away with abortion, with protections for the cases mentioned. But the hardliners fight that almost as hard as the leftists fight for the freedom to murder babies. A drastic reduction in abortions is possible, but it will never happen until folks like you agree to those protections.

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I'm in agreement that those crimes should be penalized with the death penalty, or at least something harsher than a few years in prison, but I'm talking about abortions, not the crime that led to the pregnancy.

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I’m talking about abortions as well. You can skin a cat from the other end just as well, you know? First you make the concessions, getting rid of abortion as contraception. Then you vigorously prosecute those who abuse women and girls. A 40 year sentence for forcible rape, or better yet the death penalty, and I think you see a dramatic decrease in abortions from rape and incest.

I’ll freely admit that my position isn’t completely consistent, but I guarantee it would result in millions fewer abortions than yours, and isn’t that what we both want?

Sadly the left has been convinced the only way to fix a rape is to kill a baby. They don’t even consider an alternative to killing the baby and lord help you if you suggest that maybe, just maybe, committing murder might not help you get over a rape.