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re: The left keeps saying we cannot imprison our way out of crime.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 10:36 pm to Powerman
Posted on 11/27/25 at 10:36 pm to Powerman
quote:The war on drugs isn’t just a contributor, it's the engine. It kicked off a snowball effect. And once you have a snowball, the fix has to be more multifaceted than the cause.
The war on drugs was stupid and contributed a lot to that
A high number of felons reoffend, so it’s logical to expect that massively increasing intake will also increase output. We know a huge share of felons started as drug offenders, so flooding the system with nonviolent people means you’re feeding more bodies into a machine that reliably outputs violent offenders. We know we now have one of the highest incarceration rates on the planet because of that policy choice, so the explosion of people with long rap sheets is a feature of the current policy, not a bug.
If the goal is reducing violence hit, actual violent offenders with lengthy sentences right away, and stop imprisoning them with nonviolent people in the first place. Placing non-violent people into a system that creates violent offenders guarantees you create more violent offenders.
2
Posted on 11/27/25 at 10:38 pm to northshorebamaman
What is the motivation behind ensuring mass incarceration?
I’m with you btw, just curious what your thoughts are.
I’m with you btw, just curious what your thoughts are.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 10:38 pm to loogaroo
quote:
I'm saying if penalties were harsher there would be less of them
But why would you keep saying that when evidence has been shown 3-4 times now on this thread to not be true?
This is exactly why (IMO) no progress ever gets made on this issue.
The right is absolutely committed to the emotional satisfaction they feel when they advocate for harsh punishments regardless of how ineffective such tactics have been shown to be. It's not about the results, it's about maintaining revenge-porn emotional satisfaction and the triumph of declaring macho tough-guy mandates.
Similarly, the left is absolutely committed to maintaining the obviously destructive policies that lead to the social rot that aggravate crime in the first place: the culture of feminism, anti-traditional family culture, and social programs that encourage and enable single motherhood, allowing rampant crime in certain cities and states and turning violent criminals back out onto the streets without any rehabilitation having been done (usually) as a form of reverse racism, etc.
Neither side will admit either one of those things, neither side will back down from either of those things, and we stay stuck.
Personally, I agree with cubbies that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity, and I also agree with loogaroo that it's a much bigger societal picture than can be solved by just coming up with a reformed prison culture.
The right needs to let go of viewing the justice system only as a retributive/punitive system, and the left needs to stop trying to completely destroy traditional Judaeo-Christian values and stop denying that the major portion of our problems stem from having so vigorously done so for the last 60 or so years.
Neither will do those things, so...
Posted on 11/27/25 at 10:52 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
The war on drugs isn’t just a contributor, it's the engine.
No, it's not the sole engine. At the same time that Nixon was declaring the war on drugs, feminism was sending women out into the workplace in numbers never seen before in America, and Johnson's recently enacted war on poverty was also busy incentivizing single motherhood.
All of that stuff happened at the same time. We know the research on outcomes for children who grow up in households without fathers. They are terrible. Twice as likely to go to prison (and that's after controlling for income and education).
quote:
If the goal is reducing violence hit, actual violent offenders with lengthy sentences right away, and stop imprisoning them with nonviolent people in the first place. Placing non-violent people into a system that creates violent offenders guarantees you create more violent offenders.
...flooding the system with nonviolent people means you’re feeding more bodies into a machine that reliably outputs violent offenders.
Agree with this.
This post was edited on 11/27/25 at 10:53 pm
Posted on 11/27/25 at 10:56 pm to loogaroo
quote:
The left keeps saying we cannot imprison our way out of crime.
May or may not be true. One thing that’s certainly true. No one has ever committed a crime after being executed. Just sayin’.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 11:23 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:You're correct. I should have said one of the primary engines.
No, it's not the sole engine.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 9:20 am to 4cubbies
Hey count, you responded to someone saying it’s unfortunate that the justice system “failed” to “rehabilitate” someone that went on to commit a violent crime.
You see, liberalism is a feminine ideology and it leads to a dissolution of boundaries and misplaced “compassion”.
You as a woman would actually be happy if men ran the show.
You see, liberalism is a feminine ideology and it leads to a dissolution of boundaries and misplaced “compassion”.
You as a woman would actually be happy if men ran the show.
This post was edited on 11/28/25 at 11:03 am
Posted on 11/28/25 at 9:40 am to Sizzle_DAWG
Lots to unpack here.
First question: how old are you? How do you cope with minor annoyances offline? I find this reaction to be incredibly unhinged.
You’re on an emotional rant which started with calling me a count.
quote:
Hey count,
First question: how old are you? How do you cope with minor annoyances offline? I find this reaction to be incredibly unhinged.
quote:incarceration results when the government has determined someone must be removed from society for a period of time after being convicted of committing some crime. The offender is in the care, custody and control of the government for a period of time. The government knows the person has antisocial tendencies and refuses to address them. How is that not a failure of the government?
you responded to someone saying it’s unfortunate that the justice system “failed” to “rehabilitate” someone that went on to commit a violent crime.
quote:I need to you to connect the dots for me. What does any of that have to do with recidivism or the failures of the criminal justice system to rehabilitate people in its custody?
You see, liberalism is a feminine ideology and it leads to a dissolution of boundaries and misplaced “compassion”.
You’re on an emotional rant which started with calling me a count.
quote:I don’t know what this means.
You as a woman would actually be happy if men ran the shoe.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 9:40 am to soonerinlOUisiana
quote:
One thing that’s certainly true. No one has ever committed a crime after being executed.
But people have been exonerated after being executed.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 9:55 am to 4cubbies
quote:
That’s not what evidence indicates but that doesn’t stop Americans from frothing at the bit at the thought of locking someone in a cage for 500 years.
quote:
The threat of criminal penalties is therefore only significant if an individual believes there is a high risk of being caught for committing a crime. But since most crimes, whether minor property offenses or serious violent crimes, don’t in fact result in arrest and conviction, there is little reason for most potential offenders to consider the severity of penalties.
LINK
So we are in agreement?
Enforce the laws, have a well staffed police force to catch the criminals, and a judicial system to provide swift consequences to the guilty, and most potential offenders *will* consider the severity of penalties?
Glad we got that cleared up.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:04 am to 4cubbies
We simply execute violent criminals. It’s that simple. Rehabilitate with the electric chair.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:05 am to Sizzle_DAWG
You don't trust the government to run healthcare but you trust the government to execute its own citizens without screwing anything up.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:09 am to 4cubbies
I would over “rehabilitation” lol
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:10 am to 4cubbies
I don’t trust them to do either. But that’s a separate issue.
Crime is inevitable. The level of crime a society is willing to accept is the question. And yes, you certainly can “imprison’ your way into an acceptable level of crime.
Crime is inevitable. The level of crime a society is willing to accept is the question. And yes, you certainly can “imprison’ your way into an acceptable level of crime.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:12 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Crime is inevitable. The level of crime a society is willing to accept is the question.
Stop jailing people for "drug crimes."
Start locking up violent criminals and repeat property criminals for life.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:15 am to RogerTheShrubber
Absolutely.
Drug crimes are more dynamic, but in general I’m not into criminalizing personal recreational drug use.
Drug crimes are more dynamic, but in general I’m not into criminalizing personal recreational drug use.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:26 am to MidWestGuy
quote:
a judicial system to provide swift consequences to the guilty, and most potential offenders *will* consider the severity of penalties?
Do y'all just not read or do you think if you pretend it doesn't exist no one will notice?
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:32 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Since 1970, the prison population has increased by 500%
Do you suspect the crime rate increased or decreased proportionately?
It’s about the same now as it was in 1970. The graph of it, however, shows that it’s being driven by something other than incarceration rate.
quote:
Despite making up close to 5% of the global population, the U.S. has more than 20% of the world’s prison population.
This is because so many countries simply kill their undesirables. After that, I would point to our mult-culturalism to explain it (it’s our strength, you know).
Posted on 11/28/25 at 11:35 am to Sizzle_DAWG
quote:
We simply execute violent criminals. It’s that simple. Rehabilitate with the electric chair.
Nah.
The system isn't accurate enough for that. Based on exonerations since we've had DNA to make it ironclad, for every 2,000 people sentenced to death, 90 are estimated to be innocent.
And that's just for capital crimes. Think about assault or rape, being that they are violent crimes. Really stop and think about how rape fits into your grand plan.
Woman has buyer's remorse or cheats on her boyfriend and gets caught, screams rape, and now you're looking at being executed at high noon, as I'm sure you also advocate for eliminating all appeals and having quick trials and public executions too.
Assault? Well, remember that spitting on a health care worker or police officer is felony assault. Under your plan, people convicted of spitting on someone would go to the electric chair.
I can go on if it's not yet clear how dumb this idea is.
This post was edited on 11/28/25 at 11:38 am
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