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re: The irony of funding Ukraine is that the conflict is keeping oil prices high.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:40 pm to loogaroo
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:40 pm to loogaroo
quote:
And would be even cheaper without the sanctions and regulations.
Says who? You? Are you even in the industry?
Margins are high as frick right now.
2
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:44 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Are you even in the industry?
Yes I am. I’m telling you that the price of oil would be lower if there weren’t sanctions on Russian oil. Our sanctions are financing Russia’s ability to keep fighting in Ukraine. It’s simple. We are buying their refined products because most of the Jet fuel in the world comes from Russian and Nigerian oil.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:48 pm to PaperTiger
quote:
The price for a barrel of oil more than doubled between 2020 and 2022
So before the sanctions were imposed? shite by the sounds of it, the russian sanctions made oil cheaper. Since the sanctions were imposed, the price of oil is down 36% following the initial spike, in real terms.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:48 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Margins are high as frick right now.
I know, but this Ukraine thing created a secondary market that wouldn’t have existed before. It shuffled the deck and allowed a bunch of Chinese brokers (among others) to trade fuel essentially on the black market. Thus artificially inflating the price of oil.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:53 pm to loogaroo
quote:
Thus artificially inflating the price of oil.
It's not doing much of anything to the price. If anything making russia sell at a discount is putting a drag on the price as China buys more from them, lowering demand for non-russian oil.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:04 pm to JohnnyKilroy
You think Russia is selling ALL of their oil abiding to the sanctions? Cmon.
They have shadow fleets. They are selling at the prices they want. They are introducing more oil to the market.
Russia is getting their share.
They have shadow fleets. They are selling at the prices they want. They are introducing more oil to the market.
Russia is getting their share.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:04 pm to loogaroo
quote:
See my reply above. You guys have no clue what's happening in the fuel trading world because of this war and now the Red Sea attacks.
China is loving this.
The point you began with was that Russia was making a killing because of high crude prices brought about by sanctions.
Well:
1. Crude prices are lower than before the sanctions and price cap.
2. Russia is selling oil, at a discount to the lower than pre-sanction/cap prices.
Everything...all the facts...show that not to be the case. Whether China loves this or not, doesn't support your premise that the sanctions are keeping prices high and the Russians are killing it.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:05 pm to PaperTiger
quote:
The price for a barrel of oil more than doubled between 2020 and 2022, from an average of $44.28 to $94.90.
But yeah, definitely getting it cheaper now.
I guess Biden should order up another pandemic or beg the Saudis to flood the oil markets and wipe out another 3rd of the domestic oil industry.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 5:17 pm to cwill
It’s wild how people use 2020 as some sort of economic baseline when the government shut down the economy that year.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 6:37 pm to cwill
quote:
The point you began with was that Russia was making a killing because of high crude prices brought about by sanctions.
No. I said it was financing there ability to keep the war going in Ukraine.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 6:51 pm to loogaroo
Loogaroo, were are we disconnecting here?
US puts sanctions on Russian oil. This is to keep it off the international market. But there are other countries (China being one) that ignore the sanctions and buys it on the black market. Because Russian oil cannot be openly traded, it's traded at a lower than market value. No way would China pay open market price much less higher than market value for Russian oil. this means China has less demand on the open market. They are getting a lot of their oil cheap in the black market because Russia is desperate for the money (Russian government relies heavily on the oil revenue and not just for military).
Do you think it works different than this?
US puts sanctions on Russian oil. This is to keep it off the international market. But there are other countries (China being one) that ignore the sanctions and buys it on the black market. Because Russian oil cannot be openly traded, it's traded at a lower than market value. No way would China pay open market price much less higher than market value for Russian oil. this means China has less demand on the open market. They are getting a lot of their oil cheap in the black market because Russia is desperate for the money (Russian government relies heavily on the oil revenue and not just for military).
Do you think it works different than this?
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 7:00 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 7:14 pm to loogaroo
quote:
No. I said it was financing there ability to keep the war going in Ukraine.
No. You said the sanctions were benefitting them. All facts indicate otherwise.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:16 pm to PaperTiger
quote:
The price for a barrel of oil more than doubled between 2020 and 2022, from an average of $44.28 to $94.90.
Was demand the same in 2020 as it was in 2022? Did something happen in 2020 to curtail demand?
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:38 pm to Powerman
quote:
Then why is oil relatively cheap right now?
It’s almost $80 a barrel and average gas prices are well over $3/gal and we aren’t even at summer yet. What planet do you people live on?
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:44 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
It’s wild how people use 2020 as some sort of economic baseline when the government shut down the economy that year.
They’re either dishonest or dumb. I’ll let them choose.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:58 pm to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
It’s almost $80 a barrel and average gas prices are well over $3/gal and we aren’t even at summer yet. What planet do you people live on?
The fact based planet.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 9:07 pm to COAUTiger
quote:
Russian oil cannot be openly traded, it's traded at a lower than market value.
It is being traded at or just below market value. Any other country besides us can buy it at market value. It's being blended and repapered in other ports. The refined product is being sold to us at market value. China is profiting and Russia is profiting. The sanctions are allowing Russia to finance their war with Ukraine. What is so hard to understand?
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 9:17 pm to cwill
quote:
No. You said the sanctions were benefitting them. All facts indicate otherwise.
Huh? What facts are these?
Please tell me where all the jet fuel the world consumes comes from.
How's Russia's currency doing compared to ours?
Posted on 2/23/24 at 9:29 pm to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
It’s almost $80 a barrel and average gas prices are well over $3/gal and we aren’t even at summer yet. What planet do you people live on?
75 dollars a barrel in 2024 dollars is below average.
Gas, in 2024 dollars, is also relatively cheap.
Or do you completely deny inflation exists?
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 9:30 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 9:32 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Gas, in 2024 dollars, is also relatively cheap.
Relative to what? Definitely not relative to the money everyday folks have in their pockets.
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