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Started By
Message
The GOP might impeach Trump, changing our politics forever – for the better
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:33 pm
"Summary: President Trump might spark a change in our politics both unexpected and (as it will seem afterwards) inevitable, making our 18th century constitutional regime more similar to modern parliamentary systems. If he continues to act wildly and weirdly, the Republicans in Congress might impeach and remove him — putting the solidly far-Right Mike Pence at the helm. Trump would be the first President removed by Congress, but not the last. The occasional impeachment of Presidents would make Congress the Federal power center the Founders intended it to be.
A long-time concern of constitutional lawyers and political scientists has been the fundamental instability of presidential governance systems, like that of the USA. How are deep and irreconcilable conflicts between Congress and the President resolved? Worse, what happens if we get an incompetent President after he loses the confidence of Congress, the public, and perhaps even senior executive branch officers? Especially at a time of national crisis, the result could be disastrous — with no obvious remedy. For example, see “American democracy is doomed” by Matthew Yglesias at VOX.
In the early 1980s Bruce Ackerman (Prof Law, Yale) began to study the process of constitutional change in America. He found an informal method of evolution other than the formal processes specified in the Constitution, which he called “higher lawmaking” (summary here). After the great crises of the Civil War, the Great Depression, and WWII — America’s political regime bears little resemblance to its form during Washington’s administration. The Trump years might create its next great test.
Much of America’s social change since WWII results from elites’ recognition that they can break the informal social norms that govern their behavior. Doctors can practice medicine as a business and become rich. CEOs can arrange corporations to pay themselves fantastic sums and so become plutocrats. Elected representatives can arrange to become almost permanent fixtures, retiring wealthy.
All of these changes seemed impossible before they happened, until they realized that the social norms that constrained them were just paper shackles. In the next few years Congress might realize that they can impeach a President at will, drastically changing the structure of US government to more closely resemble the parliamentary governments used by almost all other republics (for good reason few nations have copied our odd structure). Trump might force this break in precedent; its effects will change America’s government forever."
LINK
I think the stage is being set for impeachment. Maybe. The GOP may chicken out if that is even in the works.
A long-time concern of constitutional lawyers and political scientists has been the fundamental instability of presidential governance systems, like that of the USA. How are deep and irreconcilable conflicts between Congress and the President resolved? Worse, what happens if we get an incompetent President after he loses the confidence of Congress, the public, and perhaps even senior executive branch officers? Especially at a time of national crisis, the result could be disastrous — with no obvious remedy. For example, see “American democracy is doomed” by Matthew Yglesias at VOX.
In the early 1980s Bruce Ackerman (Prof Law, Yale) began to study the process of constitutional change in America. He found an informal method of evolution other than the formal processes specified in the Constitution, which he called “higher lawmaking” (summary here). After the great crises of the Civil War, the Great Depression, and WWII — America’s political regime bears little resemblance to its form during Washington’s administration. The Trump years might create its next great test.
Much of America’s social change since WWII results from elites’ recognition that they can break the informal social norms that govern their behavior. Doctors can practice medicine as a business and become rich. CEOs can arrange corporations to pay themselves fantastic sums and so become plutocrats. Elected representatives can arrange to become almost permanent fixtures, retiring wealthy.
All of these changes seemed impossible before they happened, until they realized that the social norms that constrained them were just paper shackles. In the next few years Congress might realize that they can impeach a President at will, drastically changing the structure of US government to more closely resemble the parliamentary governments used by almost all other republics (for good reason few nations have copied our odd structure). Trump might force this break in precedent; its effects will change America’s government forever."
LINK
I think the stage is being set for impeachment. Maybe. The GOP may chicken out if that is even in the works.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:34 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
I think the stage is being set for impeachment.
On what grounds?
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:34 pm to WhiskeyPapa
im not reading all of this but i would never vote republican again.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:37 pm to WhiskeyPapa
That might have been the plan prior to Nunes admitting that Trump was spied on during the campaign. And that it had nothing to do with Russia
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:37 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
might impeach
quote:
I think
quote:
Maybe.
Way to go out on a limb there, C&P.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:41 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:That being the case, why have a President at all (save for ceremonial duties).
In the next few years Congress might realize that they can impeach a President at will
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:42 pm to HailToTheChiz
quote:
On what grounds?
"…In 1970 Gerald Ford declared that an impeachable offence ‘is whatever a majority of the House (considers it) to be at a given moment in history’ and that ‘conviction results from whatever offense or offenses two-thirds of (the Senate) considers to be sufficiently serious to require removal’. …"
Same link
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:45 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Psst, I have a source with great deals on oceanfront property in Arizona. DM me for details.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:48 pm to DragginFly
quote:
In the next few years Congress might realize that they can impeach a President at will
That being the case, why have a President at all (save for ceremonial duties).
That is what Congress intended. That is why the Legislative Branch Article is first and the Executive Branch Article is second in the Constitution.
"Old Buck" Buchanan was called the "Public Functionary."
On deck was Lincoln with a pretty gigantic challenge.
"I felt that measures, otherwise unconstitutional, might become lawful, by becoming indispensable to the preservation of the constitution, through the preservation of the nation. Right or wrong, I assumed this ground, and now avow it."
4/4/64
And the presidents have gained more and more power ever since.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:48 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
WhiskeyPapa
Maxine, is that you?
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:49 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
"…In 1970 Gerald Ford declared that an impeachable offence ‘is whatever a majority of the House (considers it) to be at a given moment in history’ and that ‘conviction results from whatever offense or offenses two-thirds of (the Senate) considers to be sufficiently serious to require removal’. …"
so, you don't provide the grounds...you are merely saying Congress can come up with whatever reason?
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:49 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
would make Congress the Federal power center the Founders intended it to be.
frick that, have you seen what congress has become?
A bunch of lifetime politicians that are owned by special interest groups. Districts created by the magic pen and elected by skin color rather than merit.
The political shite show in Washington is why we have a President Trump. If his only accomplishment is to seat some good SCJOTUS then he's done well.
That and piss off some of the do nothing Congress is fine by me.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 3:01 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
I think the stage is being set for impeachment. Maybe. The GOP may chicken out if that is even in the works.
patience
English bookies have it 4-1 against impeachment during first year in office.
but the English bookies have it at about 50/50 if you want to bet against Trump making it the full 4 years.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 3:06 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Keep dreaming. Enjoy eight years of Trump you old frick
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