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Started By
Message
re: The Discordance of Predominant Protestant Thought (for Agnostics).
Posted on 11/7/21 at 6:07 pm to Diamondawg
Posted on 11/7/21 at 6:07 pm to Diamondawg
Go ahead. Be judgemental. After all, your elected.
1
Posted on 11/7/21 at 6:17 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:It's "you're" but what have I been elected to do?
Go ahead. Be judgemental. After all, your elected.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 6:25 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
Are not God's attributes described in the Bible?
quote:
““As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
??Isaiah? ?55:9? ?NIV??
Posted on 11/7/21 at 6:26 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
If God is like the stuck up sorority chick picking popular friends and shunning the awkward, then I'll pass.
youtube
It's 53 minutes long. You probably won't watch it but I hope you do.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 7:34 pm to RiverCityTider
If your God strives and fails, then he is no God at all.
Christ did not die in hopes of saving anyone. He died to redeem a people that God had chosen. It is finished. The reality for each one is to be worked out In time. The ultimate truth of their salvation was accomplished at the cross. If you do not believe this, then I do not know what confidence you can have.
Either he died to save or he died to make saveable. I believe the Bible clearly teachers the former.
Romans 9:14-20
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
Christ did not die in hopes of saving anyone. He died to redeem a people that God had chosen. It is finished. The reality for each one is to be worked out In time. The ultimate truth of their salvation was accomplished at the cross. If you do not believe this, then I do not know what confidence you can have.
Either he died to save or he died to make saveable. I believe the Bible clearly teachers the former.
Romans 9:14-20
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
This post was edited on 11/7/21 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 11/7/21 at 8:04 pm to scottfruget
He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. (Prov. 28:13)
For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. (Ex. 20:5-6)
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. (Matt. 5:7)
Those who regard worthless idols forsake their own mercy. (Jonah 2:8)
For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. (James 2:13)
For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. (Ex. 20:5-6)
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. (Matt. 5:7)
Those who regard worthless idols forsake their own mercy. (Jonah 2:8)
For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. (James 2:13)
Posted on 11/7/21 at 8:12 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
If your God strives and fails, then he is no God at all.
Then why this?
quote:
1First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come
- 1 Timothy 1:3
Posted on 11/7/21 at 8:22 pm to Padme
quote:
This is always where non believers stumble. They look at a situation and believe, for some reason that they themselves are more fair, compassionate or merciful than God. After all, God can’t allow something they deem ‘bad’.
God or the Devil, how do you know which one is the good guy?
Posted on 11/7/21 at 8:32 pm to RiverCityTider
Paul is referring to all types of men…he clearly says pray for all men—then lists specific types, kings and those in authority. If you take it to mean you must specifically pray for all (each and every) man, your prayer time would never end and you would surely miss someone.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 8:50 pm to RiverCityTider
A Christian does not have to be one or the other... Calvinist or Arminian. It seems to be reconciled by choosing Jesus as your Lord and Savior first, believing that He died for your sins, rose from the dead on the third day and seen by many witnesses after His resurrection.
Salvation free from the judgement of sin - in the past.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" Eph 2:8-9
We are eternally saved by the blood of Jesus, but that is not the end of our walk, but only the beginning, as Jesus then sent the Holy Spirit to us on day of Pentecost as in Acts 2. It is through the guidance and leadership of the Holy Spirit, to allow Him to lead you in the direction, God has purposed you for His kingdom. As your spirit becomes more in alignment with His Spirit, He gradually reveals new things to us, and each of us have can have a ministry in the body which would have eternal significance.
When Jesus died on the cross, His great victory over death, He first descended (before He ascended), He plundered and disarmed the rulers and principalities, (Col 2:11-15 & Ephesian 4:9) and brought back gifting which He gave to equip the saints, to be His body to be in unity to strengthen each other. Things that are done in the body have consequences for the entire body, but it is His will that we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God.. we are to edify and strengthen each other in the gifts He has given us (Ephesians 4:7-16). The gifts taken from unseen provided in the seen realm gradually reveal to us the weaponry and authority we have in Him. The enemy has already been defeated and disarmed, but the mouth of the enemy is still at work.
The evil spirits roaming the earth are at work to deceive people away from the the truth, because they understand their destination and their end. The demons fear the great commission, because they know that once the gentile harvest is full, it will accelerate their path towards destruction. Through the manifestation of lies and deceit the enemy desperately schemes to delay the hour of their appointed time.
It is the Holy Spirit in us that brings the anointing oil in us, (the earthen vessels that contain Him), that keeps the light of truth shining where darkness flees. It is a battle of truth and lies in the fight and struggles with the enemy that we desire to bring others to Christ.
Salvation free from the power of sin - in the present
For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.
In order to advance in the kingdom the anointing power of the Holy Spirit Himself is at work in you to transform you, free you from the powers at work, and to unveil new revelations.
Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
In this process the Holy Spirit uses gifts provided to the body so that we can again work as One for Him.
How each of us uses the gifts that God has given us will be revealed at the judgement seat of Christ (the Bema). The works which He has called us to do in His kingdom, and obedience to Him will be revealed. The treasures given to you for doing His work will be revealed during this appointment. Some of these treasures may already be stored up for some of you walking with Him now.
All of the combined things we do will be revealed and a just judgement will be given to each of us.
Salvation free from the presence of sin - in the future
In the end, many of us get to forever dwell with the God we have chosen. A new body will revealed and things will be made new, And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.
Salvation free from the judgement of sin - in the past.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" Eph 2:8-9
We are eternally saved by the blood of Jesus, but that is not the end of our walk, but only the beginning, as Jesus then sent the Holy Spirit to us on day of Pentecost as in Acts 2. It is through the guidance and leadership of the Holy Spirit, to allow Him to lead you in the direction, God has purposed you for His kingdom. As your spirit becomes more in alignment with His Spirit, He gradually reveals new things to us, and each of us have can have a ministry in the body which would have eternal significance.
When Jesus died on the cross, His great victory over death, He first descended (before He ascended), He plundered and disarmed the rulers and principalities, (Col 2:11-15 & Ephesian 4:9) and brought back gifting which He gave to equip the saints, to be His body to be in unity to strengthen each other. Things that are done in the body have consequences for the entire body, but it is His will that we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God.. we are to edify and strengthen each other in the gifts He has given us (Ephesians 4:7-16). The gifts taken from unseen provided in the seen realm gradually reveal to us the weaponry and authority we have in Him. The enemy has already been defeated and disarmed, but the mouth of the enemy is still at work.
The evil spirits roaming the earth are at work to deceive people away from the the truth, because they understand their destination and their end. The demons fear the great commission, because they know that once the gentile harvest is full, it will accelerate their path towards destruction. Through the manifestation of lies and deceit the enemy desperately schemes to delay the hour of their appointed time.
It is the Holy Spirit in us that brings the anointing oil in us, (the earthen vessels that contain Him), that keeps the light of truth shining where darkness flees. It is a battle of truth and lies in the fight and struggles with the enemy that we desire to bring others to Christ.
Salvation free from the power of sin - in the present
For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.
In order to advance in the kingdom the anointing power of the Holy Spirit Himself is at work in you to transform you, free you from the powers at work, and to unveil new revelations.
Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
In this process the Holy Spirit uses gifts provided to the body so that we can again work as One for Him.
How each of us uses the gifts that God has given us will be revealed at the judgement seat of Christ (the Bema). The works which He has called us to do in His kingdom, and obedience to Him will be revealed. The treasures given to you for doing His work will be revealed during this appointment. Some of these treasures may already be stored up for some of you walking with Him now.
All of the combined things we do will be revealed and a just judgement will be given to each of us.
Salvation free from the presence of sin - in the future
In the end, many of us get to forever dwell with the God we have chosen. A new body will revealed and things will be made new, And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 8:55 pm to civilag08
But it does matter. What you win them with is what you win them to. If it’s a man made decision, then faith rests in the choice of the man. If faith is a gift of God (election), then salvation is of the Lord. Two completely different things. Synergism or monergism?
This post was edited on 11/7/21 at 8:56 pm
Posted on 11/7/21 at 9:14 pm to civilag08
quote:
A Christian does not have to be one or the other... Calvinist or Arminian.
I always liked Spurgeon's take.
quote:
“That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment.
Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other.
These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.”
Posted on 11/7/21 at 9:27 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
You don't think it's a little bizarre to take this accusatory tone
its a troll.
its rude, small minded and invites a fight.
.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 9:44 pm to Diamondawg
quote:
Seems incongruent. There are plenty of non denominational Churches around. Sounds like you need to sit down with a Pastor and help you sort through your issues.
You're probably right.
My issues with my after-life destination fears for myself aren't with the church... They're with myself.
My own inner demons that I fight and win, and sometimes I just don't even fight and let them win. That's on me. When I fight darkness, I win. I've always had that stubbornness and strength. My weakness is that I sometimes don't want to muster up the will to fight.
Posted on 11/7/21 at 10:34 pm to RiverCityTider
Only a nonelect, totally depraved, unregenerate, reprobate mind could get an account of true little-o orthodox Biblical Christian belief so irredeemably wrong.
I'm kidding of course. I believe even bad doctrine is insufficient to separate God's elect from Him.
Go in peace, summer child.
I'm kidding of course. I believe even bad doctrine is insufficient to separate God's elect from Him.
Go in peace, summer child.
This post was edited on 11/7/21 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 11/8/21 at 1:43 am to Diamondawg
quote:if you read the Word of God you would know the truth. Jesus clearly states that no one can be taken from the Fathers hand.
nor once saved always saved. Baptist do, though. I believe one can absolutely fall from Grace.
you can do nothing to save yourself except you believe. it's not about you, it's all about him, Jesus.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 1:54 am to scottfruget
quote:do you believe the free gift of everlasting life is made available to all who believe and that our Lord Jesus came to die for all?
Not what I read. All are sinners until redeemed.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 4:56 am to s2
I believe that Jesus came to die for those whom the father gave him. And he did so. He now lives to intercede for them. Those who believe in him are those whom the father gave him. And it is indeed a free gift because no one wanted it to begin with.
Romans 3:9-12
No One Is Righteous
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
John 6:44-47
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
Romans 3:9-12
No One Is Righteous
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
John 6:44-47
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
This post was edited on 11/8/21 at 5:03 am
Posted on 11/8/21 at 6:13 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Scripture is an appeal to man's rationality and consciousness. Page after page illustrate right action and right thought, and warn against wrong action and wrong thought. The two tenants mentioned above render the bible, as well as all Christian outreach nonsensical.
God's love for man necessitated that he allow him free will. To do otherwise would have been tantamount to a parent, for the love of their child, prohibiting them from ever leaving the house.
The presence of the Tree of Knowledge is symbolic of God's admonition to man to follow him. But note, the tree is present, because the absence of the tree would mean the absence of free will which would no more acceptable to a loving God than locking a child in their bedroom to "protect" them from the dangers of this world.
So it must be said, that God limits his own authority, thereby limiting his power. He does this out of love.
God's action in the world to save his children is called grace. Grace is not some fairy dust that hijacks the recipient's free will and grants him membership in the exclusive club of the "elect". How unjust and unloving that would be!
The law and consequences are to show man through trial and error over and over again that he is incapable and in need of a savior. The law is not wrong, but without Christ, it means death to all of mankind. Grace is there to make up the difference and to guide us to obedience instead of the law alone.
The bottom line is that if you are going to meet God on your accomplishments, your good deeds, or anything other than Grace and Grace alone through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ, then you are going to fall under the wrath of God.
Once saved always saved, Calvinism, or insert any other theology, the bottom line is this. You come to Christ in child like faith, casting aside any and all preconceived notions, and take Him at His word. If you seek Him, you will find Him. He wishes that NONE would perish, no not one. THAT is His word.
Posted on 11/8/21 at 6:29 am to Mike da Tigah
Is it true that Luther ridiculed Mathew, Mark and Luke as inconsequential? Is that why all the skepticism about Christ's commands being non-essential to salvation?
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