re: The "Church" of England

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I found it very interesting when I learned that King Henry 8th even executed some fellow Protestants who refused to follow Church of England doctrine to the letter!

Ridiculous.

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Henry VIII executed a lot of people for a lot of things.

Church of England was "Catholic lite". There were more radical versions of Protestantism that he despised.

In the end, he started drifting back toward Catholicism, but then he died.

His oldest daughter, Mary (by Catherine of Aragon), tried to restore Catholicism, but she too died. She was succeeded by Elizabeth I (daughter of Henry and Anne Boleyn), who was hardcore CoE.

This shi! is evil.

I am not deeply familiar with all of the nuances of the historical situation, but, after watching the film "A Man For All Seasons", I did seriously consider whether the Pope might have made the better decision to grant an Annulment to Henry's marriage, given that the spouse could not bear children.

The Pope at the time was under intense political pressure to prohibit severance of the marriage, but, if the Pope were a more astute and persuasive diplomat and secular leader, he might have maneuvered the situation in such a way to annul the childless marriage and placate the opposing foreign leaders.

Of course, once Henry decided that he needed yet another Annulment, then the Pope would face the dilemma all over again.

Interesting historical problem AND one of the segmets of rather ancient history that is very relevant to our lives today - Christianity today here in the USA is quite fractured, even though many of us are not well-catechized enough to be aware of it.

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Pentecostal Holiness church

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Another excellent example of the many schisms that have happened since Henry 8th's time - the Pentecostals are divided into the Oneness group, who deny the existence of the Trinity and the remainder group who follow the traditional definition and understanding of the Trinity.

BOTH opposing groups, of course, insist that THEY alone follow the truthful doctrine explained in God's Word the Holy Bible. Of course, both cannot be correct.

A quote from a letter by Bishop Fulgentius, born about 462 A.D.

"Now in the time of the new testament the holy catholic Church throughout the world never ceases to offer the sacrifice of bread and wine, in faith and love, to him and to the Father and the Holy Spirit, with whom he shares one godhead."

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This is a bit dramatic.

The Protestant faith doesn’t “defame” the Virgin Mary, but rather focuses solely on worshipping Jesus to avoid idolatry. They honor Mary as a faithful servant of God, but reject her veneration.

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I feel you're speaking too broadly. I'm glad not all Protestant denominations defame the Virgin Mary, but there most definitely are denominations who treat her as some commoner.

Oh Prots…

Just come home.

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I'm glad not all Protestant denominations defame the Virgin Mary, but there most definitely are denominations who treat her as some commoner.

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I can’t speak on behalf of all Protestant churches, but I’ve never heard anyone “defame” her.

And, she was a commoner — that was part of the miracle of the immaculate conception.

Are we sure the Dutch didn't invade England like 200 years ago and just fabricate the UK's history while making them vassals for their overseas territories? It would make a lot of sense...

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Usually the ink you inject into the water to misdirect, obfuscate, and confuse is typical Gnostic piffle. Here you’re simply taking Holy Scripture as it is and claim it says what it doesn’t say.

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A husband and wife, or sisters and brothers working with an Apostle to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ (much like Lazarus and his sisters Martha and Mary supported Jesus) does not justify or support female ordination.

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Look I don’t give two shits about female priestesses, pastors, ministers, deacons, or preachers.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of your scripture, but it could be due to intentional mistranslation by your favorite biblical publisher.

Let’s look at the ESV: they intentionally make the text read like Junia is simply known really well to the apostles, rather than clarifying Junia was an actual apostle.

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7Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

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And the NASB 1995: and in this translation, they fudge the name of Junia, a woman, and attempt to turn it into a nonexistent masculine name. “Junias” wasn’t a real name. In Ancient Greek, “Junia” was a female name with no male equivalent, the same as a name like “Rebecca” or “Madeline” or “Elizabeth”.

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Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

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Christian chauvinists like you desperately want Junia to not be an apostle.

In 1 Corinthians 12, Paul describes titles ranked within the church:

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28And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

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The KJV gets it correct:

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Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

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The NRSV gets it correct:

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Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

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We can check the Greek:

What adjective does Paul use of Junia?

episémos: Notable, distinguished, marked, prominent

Then we have:

en: in, on, at, by, with, among

And

tois apostolos: the Apostles

Origen, an early church father, quote’s Paul’s letter but has translated it to Latin:

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Andronicus et Junia consanguinei mei et socii carceris mei, qui apud apostolos insigniter noti sunt, qui etiam ante me in Christo erant.

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So I hope you learned something about how some in the church tried to re-write and overwrite and cover up the fact that Junia, a woman, was not only an apostle but she was a big fricking hotshot apostle according to Paul. I hope you also realize that Paul considered apostles to be assigned directly by God and were more highly ranked (the highest rank) among church leadership including bishops and helpers which were of much lower rank.

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Someone prominent among the Apostles-even renowned among them for their faith and labors-isn’t an Apostle

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Yeah Junia and Andronicus weren’t like these random non-apostles within a group of real apostles. The Greek word means inclusive of or within. Same with the Latin word. Junia was noteworthy within, or inside, inclusive of the group known as apostles.

Sure you can say “nuh uh” like Foo does all the time, but why stoop to his level? The evidence is clear.

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How many different Protestant denominations are there now? Holding exactly how many very opposing beliefs and doctrines?

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A lot, but the issue isn't that there are opposing beliefs about things. There are opposing beliefs within Catholicism. The difference is that those opposing beliefs aren't then carried over to different "sects" of Catholicism, but remain unified under one ecclesiastical body. It's a false unity, as I see it.

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Pre-destination? Female clergy? Gay clergy? Young Earth or not? Is Baptism just a symbol or something that actually washes away Sin? On and on. There are myriad different Protestant doctrines and beliefs.

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Correct, just as there is a lot of error in Catholicism and different beliefs held by those within the RCC. The dogmas are really the only things that must be believed, at least functionally, and there are relatively few of those compared to the tomes of writings about law and doctrine.

While there are a lot of differing beliefs within Protestant denominations, there are very few gospel issues that would put them outside of the visible church, as we believe the Scriptures teach.

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My contention that your use of the phrase "disunity while holding to the truth of God's word" is partially inaccurate. The "disunity" part is accurate. The other part is obviously - and by virtue of the myriad of disagreements over doctrine - that part is inaccurate.

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It's not inaccurate at all. My point wasn't that everyone in their disagreement is correct and believes the truth on that particular issue, but that each is free to seek the truth without being bound by man-made dogmas like Rome does.

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But, to each his own, WRT these issues. Everyone should seek the truth and make up their own minds.

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Yes, that's why we have liberty of conscience to interpret the Bible rather than having our consciences bound by men