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Message
re: Tariffs on importers from China going to 25% Friday, apparently
Posted on 5/6/19 at 5:18 pm to I B Freeman
Posted on 5/6/19 at 5:18 pm to I B Freeman
quote:... and puts fuel in China's gas tank.
Lower cost goods create wealth and grow economies.
1
Posted on 5/6/19 at 5:27 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
the ignorance of the average American is not what we should design policy around. IP theft has been a MAJOR issue imho.
what about all the manufacturing jobs they stole? we're not getting those back now with our Tremendous Deal?
Posted on 5/6/19 at 5:42 pm to 90proofprofessional
I know how China can stop them frick you for rooting against us
Posted on 5/6/19 at 7:00 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:yeah, and it was stupid as usual
i posted it as a direct response to a question you asked
quote:so when trump talks about the need for the us to be trade partners with chini and russia, that just means nothing right? oh wait, MUH UN
nothing about trump's trade efforts or actions have been multilateral
quote:see, you 2 are such disingenuous punks. you act like you're trying to protect us business interests and then you say that real things that are hurting us businesses are just phantoms. that's why you can't shake off the tds
pandering to populists by offering nostalgia and bogeymen
quote:your customary idiotic characterization has precisely zilch to do with ip theft. oh wait, you don't think that's a real thing. you are pathetic
what?
Posted on 5/6/19 at 7:19 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:keep saying stupid stuff like that. china is taking advantage of american businesses and you keep using dumb words like "unilateral." guess what? no one else in the world cares that they are stealing from us. they aren't going to fight for us. we have to do it ourselves. so there you go, UNILATERAL
it's a longer-term look at the results of this unilateral trade war
quote:no reasonable person thinks that trade data RIGHT NOW is wholly indicative of this situation
trade data is much better
quote:
because you are so misled on the matter.
coming from "muh fed" 90proof. npc extraordinaire. that's rich quote:as long as is necessary. or we could go back to letting the chini steal our military secrets. it's a binary choice. guess which side you're on.
how long will we have to wait
quote:yes it was. it's stupid. and the fact that you 2 knuckleheads are bringing it up again just further illuminates your tds
it was not "put to bed".
quote:you're the LAST person i would listen to for analysis of trade deals. "when those tax breaks wear off!!" -"no you didn't" 90proof
every thing in USMCA that actually was actually beneficial was in TPP already
quote:"no you didn't!"
they don't prove anything except that you don't understand your claim after all this time
quote:lol. i'm the one that posted the articles genius. you're the one who denied the data. you can't even reproduce what's going on. please tell me you're on drugs. i'll believe that.
you're too much of a coward to confront the data
quote:because you are an imbecile. i typed an entire paragraph yet again explaining in no uncertain terms why ib's position is completely transparent. it did not escape me that YOU FAILED TO PROVIDE A REBUTTAL AS WELL. go figure
you failed to state anything precisely.
quote:see, you're STILL wrong about this. you just don't even understand what you're critiquing and it's completely obvious that you have tds
probably because it started out, supposedly, as a crusade to return the blue-collar workforce to its former big middle-class glory
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:17 pm to bfniii
quote:
so when trump talks about the need for the us to be trade partners with chini and russia, that just means nothing right? oh wait, MUH UN
incoherent as always, unless you think "talking about the need" to be trade partners with 2 individual countries counts as a multilateral deal
actually, you probably do
quote:
you act like you're trying to protect us business interests and then you say that real things that are hurting us businesses are just phantoms.
no.
i'm not trying to "protect" anyone. you and your protectionist buddies are. certain businesses and a small minority of workers at the expense of consumers, who don't need or ask for the same kind of protection
quote:
your customary idiotic characterization has precisely zilch to do with ip theft
what?
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:20 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:You are kidding, right?
i know IP has become the fig leaf for protectionists to hide behind, but it's not like "average americans" hold it
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:29 pm to 90proofprofessional
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:31 pm to bfniii
quote:
you keep using dumb words like "unilateral."
because they are correct, in every context. sorry if that makes you feel sad or upset
quote:
so there you go, UNILATERAL
um, ok. so do you understand how this is not multilateral yet?
quote:
no reasonable person thinks that trade data RIGHT NOW is wholly indicative of this situation
what do you think the marked deceleration in both imports and exports following the ramp-up of our tariffs & the subsequent retaliation means then?
quote:
quote:
because you are so misled on the matter.
coming from "muh fed" 90proof.
you're quoting someone other than me. it looks like you actually quoted yourself. what a fail, even by your standards.
quote:
as long as is necessary.
not if you actually think trade is good. our unilateral game of chicken is going to result in more barriers and less trade than multilateral deals that protectionists love to cry about
quote:
yes it was. it's stupid. and the fact that you 2 knuckleheads are bringing it up again just further illuminates your tds
quote:
you're the LAST person i would listen to for analysis of trade deals. "when those tax breaks wear off!!" -"no you didn't" 90proof
are those quotes supposed to mean something other than actual meaning implied by quotes? are you attributing an argument to me?
quote:
"no you didn't!"
correct, you didn't, and we all know you won't. because you can't. and if you could, you'd be too chickenshit anyway
quote:
i'm the one that posted the articles genius. you're the one who denied the data
i posted as many *anecdotes* as you did. the burden of proof, or at minimum some kind of decent evidence, remains on you. and it would be such an easy claim to support!
quote:
because you are an imbecile. i typed an entire paragraph
you typed a bunch of the same old NPC orange man bad stuff y'all always say
quote:
again explaining in no uncertain terms why ib's position is completely transparent
no, you just asserted it while stomping your feet like a bitch on the rag
quote:
you're STILL wrong about this. you just don't even understand what you're critiquing
you're just mad that i'm mocking the weak-arse IP theft fig leaf, and the fact that even your dumb arse knows that anything you can spin as a victory there won't fulfill the nostalgic dreams trump so cynically sold to those pining for a return to the manufacturing economy of old
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:33 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
what about all the manufacturing jobs they stole? we're not getting those back now with our Tremendous Deal?
Ironically, those jobs are slowly leaving China as their per capita income has climbed. IP, on the other hand, does not equate fully with manufacturing. In short, our intellectual capital and institutional knowledge has typically kept us one step ahead...until that information was stolen. FWIW, we are still quite capable in that area, IF we can keep China in check. They play to win, and so should we imho. Just my .02.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:34 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You are kidding, right?
about what
how IP theft has displaced muh manufacturing jerbs as the justification for unilaterally starting a trade war with china?
or how the people who bought into that vision have nothing material to gain from whatever IP protection we think we're about to get?
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:35 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
Ironically, those jobs are slowly leaving China as their per capita income has climbed.
agreed, but i don't find that ironic
i guess i do find it a bit ironic that we can try to slam China all day, but those jobs that left the US to go to China are just going elsewhere in SE asia, not back to the US
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:35 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
... and puts fuel in China's gas tank.
In an economic sense, is still still a win for the US.
We have to have trade partners, trade creates wealth for both parties.
I imagine this will fall on deaf ears
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:39 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
trade creates wealth for both parties
on net and in the big picture, yeah
there are losers in the deal, though. particularly low-skill labor in richer countries. we haven't done well helping them to transition and compete elsewhere in higher-skill economy where we really dominate
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:42 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
there are losers in the deal, though. particularly low-skill labor in richer countries.
Which is why we are losing mfg jobs and will continue to do so. However our economy has been moving from mfg to service/high tech. We are producing what's more efficient for us to produce.
Mfg going away isn't necessarily a bad thing. Construction, health care etc are all adding jobs
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:08 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:That’s why I never understood the rationale that we must have manufacturing jobs, when there were record job openings. I mean unless the jobs added in a particular sector are higher-paying, have more security, more enjoyable, etc., then it seems irrelevant whether the come from one sector or another, all else being equal.
Mfg going away isn't necessarily a bad thing. Construction, health care etc are all adding jobs
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:The zero-sum thinking is problematic since it’s pretty much the opposite when it comes to trade. In this case, China may benefit more from trade but we still benefit. Yet people seem to think that they’re benefit is a negative for us. Worse yet, they seem to think it’s a positive for us when we lose, but China loses more.
In an economic sense, is still still a win for the US.
We have to have trade partners, trade creates wealth for both parties.
I imagine this will fall on deaf ears
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:14 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
openings. I mean unless the jobs added in a particular sector are higher-paying, have more security, more enjoyable, etc.,
I Think a lot if it is propaganda by the unions.
The heyday of mfg was up to 1970 when the jobs began to vanish. I see no reason these folks can't at least learn to be semi skilled and find a job in other sectors. Of course it takes some initiative.
Integrated steel mills are dying and auto mfg is drastically changing. Those big money/benefit jobs for low skill are going to be no more.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:21 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Worse yet, they seem to think it’s a positive for us when we lose, but China loses more.
Absolutely. It's as if crushing china will be some great benefit. I just don't see it that way.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:52 pm to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Economy is balls to the wall presently. What's the downside?
The fact that US agriculture is reliant on China buying shite. If they ain’t selling, they ain’t buying.
Farmers are still required to pay premium to produce but eat a bullet trying to sell.
And before anyone talks about “welfare farmer” remember that farming isn’t just your multi-million dollar crop producers. Majority of farms in this country gross less than 100k a year. Sure the big boys make it hard for the little guys and I understand the long game on the trade deals are gonna be good in the long run but many small farms won’t make it. That means the big guns get an ever bigger share of the market and the trickle down to the consumer is gonna be felt.
If I’m wrong, don’t down vote and instead explain and help me understand
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 9:58 pm
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