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Started By
Message
re: Tariffs. What libertarian Economists don't grasp and more.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:40 pm to Ten Bears
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:40 pm to Ten Bears
quote:
you could read, I never suggested that you claimed Sowell was open border.
Yeah you did hut moving past it.
quote:
I simply pointed out that his stance on immigration is consistent with his stance on tariffs.
It is not. So let's see if you and I can get to the actual points.
1- he is for controlling the border.
2- that does not take away from the fact of him stating that Ryan was wrong on immigration. In doing so he made it clear, controlled immigration leads to higher wages.
3- that means the cost of that labor is passed on.
To control immigration, the gov must be involved.
Therefore, if government is controlling immigration and that dictates wages, that is exactly what you are arguing tariffs do.
It would be like me screaming that immigration control is a tax on the people.
That is selective interference by the government.
For the record, I am pro merit based immigration only for multiple reasons. One being what Sowell has talked about with assimilating issues. The other is the taking of jobs.
Its the same with tariffs. It's the taking of jobs by foreign nations.
1
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:41 pm to BCreed1
quote:
So you are saying that McKinsey Global Institute is wrong. Economists are wrong?
I laughed so hard at this I almost spit all over my laptop.
OP starts thread that is basically entitled: "Economists Don't Know Beans."
Then when he starts to lose the argument, he appeals to the authority of economists.
You can't make this stuff up.
Y'all populists just admit that you will move the goalposts all over the place—all over the field, out in the parking lot, down the street, past the town square, over the city limits, out in the county, hell...you'll export it to China if you have to, to avoid admitting that these tariffs are going to raise prices and end up costing American jobs.
Just say it.
Repeat after me: "No matter what anyone says, no matter how obvious it is, no matter what data you have, no matter if a divine revelation appeared to me and told me that these tariffs were a bad idea, I will not accept it."
Just tell the truth. We can all relax at that point and stop arguing over it.
Nobody is going to waste their time arguing with a completely dogmatic crank. So just admit that that is what y'all are and let's be done with it.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:43 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
No im not. I said these tariffs will cause ZERO price increases on daily used goods.
Who in your view absorbs the tariff so it's not passed along to the consumer?
quote:
Fak its like dealing with my wife
I would imagine she'd have no more luck understanding the shite that flies off your fingertips than any of us do, so point taken.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:44 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
any, all.
If it were anyone other than
quote:
RogertheShrubber
It'd be worth a response but I've yet to see you argue in good faith with anyone
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:44 pm to Flats
quote:
I don't disagree, but you've got to be realistic about the cost of using that tool. It's not the free lunch that several people here like to claim.
A million times this.
If Trump can force other countries to drop their tariffs and then we drop ours, great. That's best case scenario and I will applaud him for that.
But the populists will not admit the cost of attempting it. This is cigarette lighter chicken. Two guys hold their arms over the flame and the first one to quit loses. But even if you win, you're going to take damage from playing.
That's all they would have to admit and I would stop arguing with them.
But they won't.
This post was edited on 3/26/25 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:45 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
I laughed so hard at this I almost spit all over my laptop.
Same, but I've wasted enough minutes of my life trying to get jjdoc to understand his own opinions/beliefs. Good luck to you.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:46 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Same, but I've wasted enough minutes of my life trying to get jjdoc to understand his own opinions/beliefs. Good luck to you.
Oh, don't worry, I've done all the arguing with these people I'm going to do over this.
I'm just here to report how hilarious that post was.
This post was edited on 3/26/25 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:49 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Who in your view absorbs the tariff so it's not passed along to the consumer?
Every single time with you ppl. Its always answering a question with a question :lol
Can you provide an example of a daily used good thats price has increased from the evil tariffs yes or no?
Since we know that you cant/wont just take the L and move along
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:52 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
Can you provide an example of a daily used good thats price has increased from the evil tariffs yes or no?
Do you really think things happen overnight?
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:53 pm to Ten Bears
quote:
It depends. First term Trump had so many exceptions to his tariffs that they really were just the tip, and then COVID hit and distorted economic numbers to get a sense of how they really affected the overall economy. But one thing that trump did BEFORE he did tariffs was to get tax cuts passed.
See, we can agree.
The things that has to be looked at are all of the results. Not a segment of them. And here is what we do know
1- prices initially went up.
2- prices dropped in 2019.
3- other appliances rose at a higher rate that were not under tariffs.
Then as you stated COVID hit and distorted economic numbers . So what can we look at? We can look at the costs when inflation drops. Within a year we will know.
Next we can look at the jobs created directly and supporting jobs. Those continue to grow due to LG and Samsungs continued expansion with out the tariffs.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:55 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
Every single time with you ppl. Its always answering a question with a question :lol
Ever though that might be because you express yourself in text like a 3rd grader?
quote:
Can you provide an example of a daily used good thats price has increased from the evil tariffs yes or no?
Sugar
quote:
Since we know that you cant/wont just take the L and move along
I did. I guess that means I won something.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:56 pm to Penrod
quote:
Stuntman, extreme Anarcho-Capitalism makes the same mistake that Karl Marx made - assuming away human greed and then creating a system that, if greed were not a problem, would work great.
I don't know of a single AnCap who thinks that we'd have a utopia if we were stateless. What we do know is that humans are flawed. A lot of humans are psychopaths and a lot of those people seek out positions of power.
The institution of government is perfect for these kinds of degenerates. Government is just a monopoly on power w/in a given geological area. Why would it ever be wise to give a monopoly on power/force/coercion to some of he worst people in society?
If government was great and we all, or most, agreed it is, then funding government could be done voluntarily. But, it isn't, because deep down we all know it sucks. Instead, we have to be forced to pay into it, because we know and government knows that "revealed preference" would show that we don't like it.
Then, you can look at it like this; Most of your life, the BEST parts of your life are almost entirely of an anarchistic nature.. Being w/ friends, having a family, going fishing, working on cars....whatever it is, it's most likely you making decisions for yourself w/ no politician or bureaucrat as a middleman.
David Friedman (Milton's son) does great work on showing how it would be cost prohibitive for the kind of mob rule you think would happen. Government can have so much control because they don't have to deal w/ market forces, and worse, can just counterfeit money whenever the choose.
To your last statement, the way I describe my views is like Dave Smith said it; Anarcho-capitalism is the North Star. Any steps towards that are a step in the right direction. Trust me, I'd love it if everyone just woke up one day and said "damn, government is immoral to it's core. What are we even doing?". I know that will not happen. So, the next best thing, to me anyway, is to have society slowly but surely see that government is an impediment to most of us and have people start to advocating for smaller and smaller government, then just follow that trend.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:56 pm to BKKAK
quote:
Do you really think things happen overnight?
So you are saying starting April 2nd the evil tariffs wont triple the price of daily used goods destroying the world like the morons on this board claim?
quote:
Sugar
How much will it increase provide the numbers
This post was edited on 3/26/25 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:56 pm to wackatimesthree
Straight to the point, you are wrong.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:57 pm to BCreed1
Great post. I cannot emphasize any more than you did the importance of the innovation that comes from having production locally, and even more, a robust, secure and consistent supply chain
Posted on 3/26/25 at 2:59 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
1- prices initially went up.
2- prices dropped in 2019.
Why lie about something so easy to dismantle?
Posted on 3/26/25 at 3:00 pm to Bigdawgb
quote:
It'd be worth a response
Just admit you have no clue.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 3:00 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
You proved my point and Tens! Thank you.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 3:00 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
LG and Samsung
Samsung and other electronics companies are getting money from the Chip’s program that was awarded last year.
Intel-$7.865 billion
TSMC-$6.6 billion
Micron-$6.165 billion
Samsung-$4.65 billion
Texas Instruments-$1.65 billion
Global Foundries-$1.5 billion
LG has been getting tax payer money over the last few years too
LG broke ground on a new plant in 2023 for a $3.2 billion plant that will employ 860 people. It is partially financed by grants. LG and GM was given $666 million in 2022 to build an EV battery plant
I took a HR class in college from a former HR manager at Zenith Electronics. They were bought by LG in the 90’s.
LG bought Zenith and closed down operations all over the country. They closed a plant in Springfield, Mo and fired over 1,500 employees. LG and Zenith has had different types of offices and manufacturing in the US since the early 1900’s when they built radio’s.
Zenith invented the wireless remote control and was one of the first to offer subscription TV and they are still the #1 US technology development and licensing company. LG and Zenith have never completely left the US since LG bought Zenith in the 90’s.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 3:01 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
Can you provide an example of a daily used good thats price has increased from the evil tariffs yes or no?
quote:
So you are saying starting April 2nd the evil tariffs wont triple the price of daily used goods destroying the world like the morons on this board claim?
See if you can figure out the issue here.
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