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re: Talarico’s Pastor Says Jesus Didn’t Die For Sins, Slanders Virgin Mary
Posted on 9/26/26 at 4:50 pm to 3down10
Posted on 9/26/26 at 4:50 pm to 3down10
quote:First, I'm not being dishonest. I'm telling you what my belief system teaches.
No, it's not the same thing as I already explained. Good works can merely be a product/fruit of keeping the commandments.
It's not a points system, and it's not about just doing them. As I have repeatedly said.
You're just dishonest.
Second, I mentioned Matthew 19 because in a previous post, you referenced the rich young ruler as an example of keeping the commandments to have salvation, but how did he begin that conversation? "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" The ESV renders it "good deed", which is the same as a "good work". Jesus responds by telling Him to keep the 2nd table of the law (the 10 commandments). So even in the story that you've referenced, there is an equivalency between "good works/deeds" and "the commandments"
Third, whether your beliefs are about a point system or not, you still teach that you must keep/obey the law for "salvation". That means you have to do something with breaking the law, because no one does keep them perfectly. Either God has to arbitrarily forgive them, or He has to provide a method to forgive them in a non-arbitrary way. You keep saying it's all about learning from your mistakes and "fixing" them through obedience. This denies that disobedience is necessarily due to having knowledge, but having sinful desires.
quote:Correct me, then. I've asked a lot of questions and made a lot of deductions based on your statements, but you've engaged with very little of it and have not answered much of it.
You don't debate me at all. You bear false witness about me, and then you debate that.
quote:I'm talking about the logical conclusion of what you are teaching. I know you are saying you aren't a teacher. I've said it several times that you say not to listen to you or other men. What I'm pointing out is a logical contradiction in this teaching. On the one hand, you say not to listen to men like you, but on the other, you are telling me and others supposed truths that only we would know, in all practicality, through you and your teaching. If you weren't on this forum, no one here would be asking your version of god to give them this secret knowledge that it has given you, and apparently only you.
For example I have told you over and over I am not your savior, your prophet, your teacher or anything. And yet you repeatedly claim I say "You should listen to me". For you to "just listen to me" would be the opposite of actually listening to what I've said. It's not about who you accept, it's about what you understand.
So again, I'm not misrepresenting you or lying about you. I'm calling you out on your inconsistencies. The only way for us to know what you believe to be true is for you to tell us, and yet you tell us not to listen to you. The end result is that almost all human beings will die with no true understanding, as you believe.
quote:See above.
Again, you don't have to correct me on that. I know what you are saying. What you are saying is inconsistent, and you refuse to see it as such, which is why I keep repeating myself.
[quote]If you ever actually addressed what I've said, that would be something. But instead you're just a liar.
Also, I've said many things and asked many questions, and you haven't responded to much of it. This is your chance to tell us the truth that you've learned, even if you think we aren't going to have full understanding. That's fine. If what you believe is something that we can at least understand in some intellectual way, even if not fully, then you should be able to explain something of it. Go ahead. Answer my questions. I'm giving you a platform.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 4:52 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:No offense, but I think you need to learn about covenant theology, my friend.
Your faith is very Old Testament.
Borderline muzzie.
. My faith is very much in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins for eternal life, but that first requires an understanding that forgiveness of sins means that there are sins that need to be forgiven, and that eternal life comes through forgiveness in Jesus precisely because our sins deserve death.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 4:59 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:God created Satan for good. He was created as an angel in Heaven, and he willful fell into rebellion, and willfully sought to deceive Adam and Eve, and deceive others into sin. God uses Satan's evil for good, including and especially for His own glory, which God deserves as Creator and God.
God created Satan to deceive people he created? And he created Satan so that they can be deceived about the Creator? Make it make sense.
quote:God doesn't trick anyone, but He does use the deception of Satan and people's own self-deception for His own glory.
God wants to trick people into following the 10 Commandments and to falsely believe that such adherence is a worthwhile goal?
I didn't say adherence to the 10 commandments is NOT a worthwhile goal. Legalism teaches that obedience to the 10 commandments is the foundation and basis of our justification/salvation. That is not true, because no one can obey perfectly.
Christianity teaches that we are to obey the 10 commandments, but not to merit our salvation, but as an evidence of it. It's an evidence that we love God, who is holy, and wants our obedience because of that.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 5:08 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
First, I'm not being dishonest. I'm telling you what my belief system teaches.
Second, I mentioned Matthew 19 because in a previous post, you referenced the rich young ruler as an example of keeping the commandments to have salvation, but how did he begin that conversation? "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" The ESV renders it "good deed", which is the same as a "good work". Jesus responds by telling Him to keep the 2nd table of the law (the 10 commandments). So even in the story that you've referenced, there is an equivalency between "good works/deeds" and "the commandments"
Third, whether your beliefs are about a point system or not, you still teach that you must keep/obey the law for "salvation". That means you have to do something with breaking the law, because no one does keep them perfectly. Either God has to arbitrarily forgive them, or He has to provide a method to forgive them in a non-arbitrary way. You keep saying it's all about learning from your mistakes and "fixing" them through obedience. This denies that disobedience is necessarily due to having knowledge, but having sinful desires.
Once again I already explained the differences to you. There is nothing about it that is hard to understand.
And why would Jesus even bother telling him to keep the commandments?
Your religion is based on breaking a commandment.
quote:
Correct me, then. I've asked a lot of questions and made a lot of deductions based on your statements, but you've engaged with very little of it and have not answered much of it.
I have over and over, and it doesn't matter. That's why I'm just going to start ignoring you. It's not really me you are debating.
It's like the whole gnostic thing. It's a word that has a meaning. I have said nothing of Gnosticism and told you directly I didn't belong to that. I looked into it years ago and saw rituals and stuff, and meh. You keep grouping me up with them so you can debate that rather than me.
But even your argument about them is lame. They were killed off is why they aren't around anymore.
quote:
Also, I've said many things and asked many questions, and you haven't responded to much of it.
I've responded to everything you've said more than once. Just like the works thing, I explained it and then you keep trying to change it into as if I was making some other argument, simple because you only have a response for the other argument.
You refuse to acknowledge that a good dead or good work would be the product of keeping the commandments, or the fruit. And just doing good things is not the point, the point is you must keep them all. It's not a legal points system where you can pay one debt with another as you would try to frame it. You can't do one good thing and then one bad thing and they cancel out. Thus it doesn't matter how many "Good works" you collect.
Because again, if you are a thief you can not live in a society with theft and so on. You can live in a society without sin if you are a sinner. It does not work. Thus doing a bunch of good deeds doesn't matter, even though they will be a byproduct of keeping the commandments.
But will you actually acknowledge what I'm actually saying? I doubt it.
This post was edited on 9/26/26 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 9/26/26 at 5:48 pm to 3down10
quote:You see it as a difference. I understand it. My point was that I see them as the same, which is why I said it the way I did. I'm not being dishonest. I'm using the terminology the Bible uses.
Once again I already explained the differences to you. There is nothing about it that is hard to understand.
To alleviate your frustration, going forward, I'll try to consistently say "obey the commandments" instead of "good works" in our conversation, but you need to meet me half way: don't call me a liar, but just remember that I mean "obey the commandments".
quote:Because the law reflects God's character, and as Paul says, we were created to do good works (obey the commandments).
And why would Jesus even bother telling him to keep the commandments?
God wants us to obey the commandments, and neither Jesus nor Paul say anything to the contrary. What they recognize is that we cannot keep them perfectly, and even one sin (breaking the commandments) deserves death, which is why we cannot do enough good works to make up for our sins. That's why Jesus had to obey the commandments perfectly in our place, and die the death we deserve, to pay the price our sin deserves. His death satisfies God's justice so that we can be freed and have eternal life. Obedience to the law is an evidence of our salvation, not a basis for it.
quote:It depends what you mean by that. I wouldn't state it that way, because "murder" isn't the basis of Christianity. Jesus willingly gave up his life to save sinners. He also obeyed the law in our place because we can't, so I could just as easily say the true religion (as opposed to your false religion) is based on Christ's obedience to the law.
Your religion is based on breaking a commandment.
quote:You haven't. You've nitpicked my legitimate usage of "good works", and I've conceded that because it makes you struggle to know what I'm saying, that I'll refer to it as "obeying the commandments". You still haven't answered my other questions.
I have over and over, and it doesn't matter. That's why I'm just going to start ignoring you. It's not really me you are debating.
quote:Let me correct you again. I didn't say you belonged to an official religion called "Gnosticism". I have said that your beliefs align well with the general beliefs of the Gnostic beliefs. I've even said that you clearly have your own spin on it. I've also stated there wasn't one single religion called "Gnosticism", but it was a set of beliefs held by groups of people who believed similarly in the first few centuries of the Church age.
It's like the whole gnostic thing. It's a word that has a meaning. I have said nothing of Gnosticism and told you directly I didn't belong to that. I looked into it years ago and saw rituals and stuff, and meh. You keep grouping me up with them so you can debate that rather than me.
But even your argument about them is lame. They were killed off is why they aren't around anymore.
That's all irrelevant. Your actual beliefs share a lot of overlap with those groups, and instead of denying it, you keep trying to correct me on something that I don't think needs correction. It's almost as if you're trying to deflect from your actual beliefs, and having to talk about them.
quote:You responded to everything I said, and more than once? Did you answer all my questions? If so, can you be so kind as to just point me to your posts doing so? If I've missed it, I apologize. Just show me where and I'll go read it.
I've responded to everything you've said more than once. Just like the works thing, I explained it and then you keep trying to change it into as if I was making some other argument, simple because you only have a response for the other argument.
I'll repost my questions for you:
First, epistemology: how do you know what you know? How do you know that your experience wasn't from a demon, self-deception, or even a hallucination? What external reality can you point to in order to know where your "revelation" came from in the first place? You simply trust that it is from "god".
Related: how can anyone know that your experience is true compared to their own experiences? I've stated that my experience is different from yours, and that I believe God has revealed the truth to me through His written word, confirmed by His Spirit testifying to my spirit that it is true. How can you know that your experience is true and mine is false? How can you know that other experiences are false, such as the Mormon who felt a burning in their bosom?
Next, you keep basing your entire religious view on obeying the commandments. You have yet to explain what those commandments even are. If the entire point of this life is based on that point, you need to tell me (and any other readers) what those commandments are, and how anyone is to know that without having the exact same personal experience as you.
Lastly, you should tell us about this "god" you believe exists. What are its attributes? What has it done in history? What will it do in the future? How did it create mankind and why? How do we know we should believe it; does it lie--can it?
quote:In Christianity, a good work or good deed is keeping the commandment. It's literally part of our theology.
You refuse to acknowledge that a good dead or good work would be the product of keeping the commandments, or the fruit.
With that said, I already said I acknowledge that you believe they are different things, and I have committed to using your terminology/meaning.
quote:Yes, I know you believe we must keep them all.
And just doing good things is not the point, the point is you must keep them all.
You haven't explained what your view of "god" is, and what it's attributes are. The Christian God is perfect in all His attributes, and His attributes are Him, including His justice. His justice demands punishment for sin, because He is also Holy. You haven't explained how your "god" can just forgive sins/breaking the law just by trying harder, or how obedience can "fix" disobedience.
I previously gave a courtroom analogy, where saving the life of one person doesn't "fix" murdering a dozen others. I'm still struggling to understand, even conceptually, how this "god" of yours can deal with law-breaking, or even how justice is served for those disobedient (pretty much everyone) who basically drift off into nothingness as some sort of eternal punishment.
quote:You haven't explained it clearly, then. You keep saying "obey the commandments", but you haven't explained what that means. Are you saying, obey them all once? Are you saying obey them all perfectly? Your lack of clarity here has led to me not understanding what you mean by "obey the commandments".
It's not a legal points system where you can pay one debt with another as you would try to frame it. You can't do one good thing and then one bad thing and they cancel out. Thus it doesn't matter how many "Good works" you collect.
quote:That doesn't make sense, because your examples don't work. If you are a thief, you can certainly live in a society that doesn't accept theft, so long as you don't get caught. If you mean something different, you'll need to explain yourself. And don't fall back on this "you can't understand unless you are given understanding", because you should be able to theoretically explain these concepts, even if someone doesn't accept them. They still have to comport with reason.
Because again, if you are a thief you can not live in a society with theft and so on. You can live in a society without sin if you are a sinner. It does not work. Thus doing a bunch of good deeds doesn't matter, even though they will be a byproduct of keeping the commandments.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 5:49 pm to 3down10
quote:Hard to acknowledge what is unclear.
But will you actually acknowledge what I'm actually saying? I doubt it.
I would say that Heaven is a place without sin, and therefore no sin can exist in Heaven. Those in Heaven will be unable to sin (to break God's commandments). That is because our sinful natures will be removed and we will be glorified, only able to obey. That seems to be different from what you are saying, though.
Posted on 9/26/26 at 7:17 pm to FooManChoo
He's a liar
Posted on 9/26/26 at 10:32 pm to NPComb
quote:
Anyone remember OBamas pastor?
Jerry Wright was a fella who despised America, said very hateful things and the MSM made sure we knew nothing about him.
Posted on 9/27/26 at 8:01 am to Timeoday
True
Posted on 9/27/26 at 8:11 am to LChama
Repeating kooky shite like this along with Elon's 100 million will make the Democrats' winning the Texas Senate even more glorious.
BTW the recent polls show Dems increasing the lead.
BTW the recent polls show Dems increasing the lead.
Posted on 9/27/26 at 8:13 am to Timeoday
Those people aren't Christian's
Posted on 9/27/26 at 8:18 am to Allister Fiend
Hell doesnt exist. Neither does heaven. When you die, you return to the same nothingness you were in prior to being born.
Life would be so much better for everyone if you weirdos just came to terms with reality. You arent special and you will not exist forever.
The sun will inevitablely consume the earth and any trace of your existence and the existence of your loved ones will be wiped away completely.
Life would be so much better for everyone if you weirdos just came to terms with reality. You arent special and you will not exist forever.
The sun will inevitablely consume the earth and any trace of your existence and the existence of your loved ones will be wiped away completely.
Posted on 9/27/26 at 8:39 am to Fells
quote:
The sun will inevitablely consume the earth and any trace of your existence and the existence of your loved ones will be wiped away completely.
Oh yeah? Well I plan to be shot into the cosmos in a cryogenic capsule to be latter reanimated by aliens living a billion light years away.
Posted on 9/27/26 at 9:29 am to UptownJoeBrown
Thats a much more solid plan than most people have to be honest.
Posted on 9/27/26 at 12:08 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
If Paxton had a brain, every Hispanic in Texas…
If Paxton had a brain, he’d be running 30 points ahead of this vaporous, conniving twink.
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