re: Suicidal Empathy: Dying to Be Kind

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Unfortunately, I can assure you there are exponentially more assholes than “suicidally empathetic” people in our civilization.

I’m a bit disappointed that you’re indulging the idea that a significant portion of society harms itself out of excessive empathy for the undeserving. There’s little evidence that this phenomenon exists at any meaningful scale, let alone to the extent that it warrants serious concern.

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Your first paragraph is an over-generic abstraction that is unprovable as stated (I doubt we'll be able to agree on what an a-hole is, much less count them.). Worse than that, it's a rather shoddy example of a relative privation fallacy (a disengenuous appeal to a different problem to ignore the stated problem). It fails on many levels, not the least of which is that an a-hole can often be not only a productive member of society and good to his family, he might also do other good works that benefit others... he just might be a dick personally.

Your second paragraph is relevant, but your "little evidence that this phenomenon exists at any meaningful scale" quip is also disingenuous, though it's more of a dishonest reductive framing or minimization.

- The OP already gave a good example with the woman getting raped by the Haitian people she was trying to help. Of course, this isn't good enough for you.
- I can point out the woman who didn't want to put another black guy in jail in NYC last week, so she doesn't report the guy and he pushes an old man down the subway stairs and kills him a little later. Won't be enough for you.
- I can point out the recent story of Estíbaliz Kortazar, a left-wing activist in Spain, who let a North African migrant stay in her apartment as an act of humanitarian solidarity. He stopped paying rent, subjected her to psychological and sexual harassment, she fled in fear and he changed the locks and took over her home. Probably not enough for you.
- I could easily find dozens of stories of muslims raping girls in the UK and throughout Europe, and the criminal behavior is excused (with suicidal empathy for Islam and total disregard for the girls).

- I could probably find 50 to 100 other example: rape, murder, theft, assault, etc., here and abroad. You just don't really want to accept it because you're conditioned to not want to believe this is a problem.

The fact is that this phenomenon of suicidal empathy is not even a new thing. Before Saad's book and clever turn of phrase, it was already a well enough known archetype of human psychology that it had its own fable... the story of the frog and the scorpion.

I would like to think this is still a commonly known story, but just in case it's not (since the powers that be in education have tried to strip out common sense and morality), here's a summary:

A scorpion asks a frog for a ride across the river because it can't swim. Frog says no, he can't trust the scorpion not to sting him. Scorpion says "c'mon, if I do that then we'll both drown." Frog sees the logic and wants to believe so agrees. Halfway across the river, the scorpion stings him anyway and as they both start to sink the frog asks, "Why?" to which the scorpion says he couldn't help it. And they drown.

Like any fable, there is a moral to the story... And the issue isn't about the scorpion; the scorpion was acting according to its nature. The point is that the frog was dumb-- perhaps naively idealistic as suicidal empathy sorts appear to be-- to believe that trying to help the scorpion wasn't going to bite him in the arse-- almost literally.

If this psychological phenomenon has its own fable and has struck people as true and important enough to teach to kids throughout the world since this story arose some hundred years ago in Russia, then you're categorically and emphatically wrong about it not warranting serious concern. The new spin of suicidal empathy just speaks to the specific context of modern progressive politics that seeks to excuse bad behavior by criminals and illegal immigrants.

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And you call this suicidal empathy instead of poor discretion?

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There are times when it's better to generalize a concept to understand it in different contexts. And there are times when it's better to be more precise with language. "Poor discretion" is too general in this case and speaks to many types of bad decision making beyond the specific political contexts Saad speaks to. It will not do. I've provided additional context to understand the psychological concept more broadly if that's really your concern. I don't believe understanding is your concern, though. I've seen enough of your posts to know you're a bit of a bleeding heart suicidal empathy sort yourself, so you're just clumsily picking around the corners of the argument in an effort to undermine it-- illogically. Suicidal empathy is appropriate in this context.

It isn't my intent to simply insult you here. You do have talent at creating threads with topics that get traction and go several pages, and different perspectives should be heard. And in one of your recent threads about one of your charges/patients/parolees/whatever lapsing his way into trouble, I noted NC_Tigah specifically being nice to you and encouraging you for trying to help people. He made me reconsider you as a poster, and you do deserve credit for trying to live to your values.

That being said, it doesn't make you right in this argument. If you read my reply here objectively, I don't see how you can argue with me in any meangingful way. Pretty much everything you've said here is argumentatively weak and presented in a way to irrationally minimize things. You might not like me saying that... I might not sound nice... I might even sound like an a-hole... but I'm arguing from a perspective of valuing morality and truth over feels. Truth matters, and that's sort of the point... Empathy is itself good, but so is being rational. Forsaking society and abandoning rationality to be "nice" is suicidal and it is a moral failure that serves nobody well.

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I’m a bit disappointed that you’re indulging the idea that a significant portion of society harms itself out of excessive empathy for the undeserving. There’s little evidence that this phenomenon exists at any meaningful scale, let alone to the extent that it warrants serious concern.

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Naive. It’s cuckoldry that’s been going on for a long time now. Especially White men who indulge in it when it comes to sharing their wives with black men. Either forcing them or them being whores enjoying it.

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I could probably find 50 to 100 other example: rape, murder, theft, assault, etc., here and abroad. You just don't really want to accept it because you're conditioned to not want to believe this is a problem.

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exactly, the algorithm proves this BS is happening way too often, but dumb ol cubbies refuses to believe.

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Just used an Audible credit for it. I’m on the road a lot this week. Let’s see how far I get.

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It's an eye opener, and a dire warning for America ... especially given Gad Saad's unique perspective.