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re: Southern Baptist ban on women pastors fails in historic vote

Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:21 pm to
Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6016 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

All of the Scriptures are God-breathed, not just the red letters. All of the Bible comes from the same divine author and what God revealed to us through Christ He also upholds through the words of the Apostles recorded for us in the New Testament.


I don't recall arguing that the bible isn't God's word.


quote:

Christ freed us from the bondage of the law, but He didn't come to remove the obligation for obedience for those whom He died to save. Christ said to love God and to love your neighbor was merely a summary of the 10 commandments. He said that if we love Him, we will obey His commandments. He said that a true branch will bear fruit (good works according to the moral law).

The "rules" Jesus broke were man-made rules, not holy commandments that reflect God's character. I hope you aren't talking about antinomianism, because the law is good, it just cannot save.



I'm honestly asking because I don't have the entire bible memorized but is there old testament scriptures that say explicitly that women are never to teach and to be quiet in worship or is that only found in Corinthians and timothy?


quote:

Again, Jesus didn't rebuke the religious leaders simply because they were angry with people who did things "a bit differently than they did", but Jesus held those leaders accountable to the standard of the Word of God. The leaders were not rebuked because they taught obedience to the law, but because they were hypocrites: teaching obedience while they did everything they could to exempt themselves or only obeyed for appearances rather than due to a desire to honor the Lord.




I would imagine that if Jesus examined the lives of all of the posters here, he would find fault? Isn't that exactly the point you just made, that Jesus was angry at the hypocrisy. People here have attacked me for breaking God's word while doing so in a manner that is not of God's word.


quote:

Christians are to speak the truth in love. Unfortunately, the anonymity of the internet provides a great temptation for people to speaking unlovingly towards others. I'm guilty of this as well. Christians should repent to each other (and to non-Christians whom we sin against) and forgive each other, seeking to be unified in the Lord. With that said, Christians have an obligation to be faithful to Christ by seeking to be conformed to His image, being perfect as He is perfect. We won't be perfect this side of Heaven, but sanctification is a life-long endeavor that happens by the Spirit working in us as we participate in the means of grace, including by faithfully attending the public worship of God, hearing the Word preached faithfully regularly, being in prayer, and participating in the sacraments that Christ gave His Church on top of fellowshipping with other Christians, building each other up in grace.



Look, I just differ from you guys on this one issue. I think Paul was writing to the church in Corinth to help them get some order in place and not to make an all time decree. I haven't used venom or anger to attack anyone, I've simply had a difference of opinion over a secondary issue and yet I've been called multiple names by people claiming to be Christ's ambassadors.

Perhaps the ones throwing the stones should examine themselves first. Are y'all keeping the whole of the law? Do y'all follow the bible exactly everyday? I hope your answer is no because if you think you are, the truth isn't in you.
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 2:25 pm
Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6016 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:22 pm to
Okay, you're clearly not going to answer my questions
Posted by LSUbest
Coastal Plain
Member since Aug 2007
15061 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:25 pm to
It is not sin.

But if we are children of God we should be above sin, not seeking to avoid breaking the law, but pleasing God.

If you seek to please God you won't go around breaking the law.
Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6016 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:28 pm to
quote:


It is not sin.



It's not a sin for women to teach?

quote:

But if we are children of God we should be above sin, not seeking to avoid breaking the law, but pleasing God.


No disagreement here.


quote:

If you seek to please God you won't go around breaking the law.


Okay, no disagreement here either.


Posted by LSUbest
Coastal Plain
Member since Aug 2007
15061 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

the only explanation is that Paul had specific instructions to a specific church to fix an issue they were having


Don't think that we don't have Galatian, Corinthian, and Roman churches here in America.

People haven't changed, only the names and faces.
Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6016 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:31 pm to
quote:

Don't think that we don't have Galatian, Corinthian, and Roman churches here in America.

People haven't changed, only the names and faces.



I don't disagree and if a woman was to preach a message that was unbiblical, I'd stand against that just as I stand against male messages that are unbiblical. I think we are all to test whatever message the pastor brings against what God has to say on the issue. When we don't you get prosperity gospel churches, churches that permit open sin, etc.


I just don't think it's a sin or wrong for a woman who is teaching a sound message to teach a sunday school class.
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 2:33 pm
Posted by LSUbest
Coastal Plain
Member since Aug 2007
15061 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

It's not a sin for women to teach?


Is it written in the law?

Are you under the law?


Galatians 5
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Posted by hashtag
Comfy, AF
Member since Aug 2005
32734 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:33 pm to
BTW, this vote had more to do with procedure in how the SBC handles these things rather than whether the delegates agree that woman can be pastors. This failed primarily because there are already methods to remove SBC churches from fellowship with the SBC who have and recognize women as being pastors. In fact, they utilized some of these methods just last year at the SBC convention.

So, while headlines will make this seem like the SBC now supports women pastors, it is in fact the opposite. They just don't want to make what some see as unnecessary changes when there are already methods to handle this issue.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
33408 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:34 pm to
quote:

that God used female prophets

These prophesies were delivered in church as part of the teaching of the faith? Or as individual moments to certain individuals?

cuz, moah scripture
quote:

28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the arse, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 29 And Balaam said unto the arse, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. 30 And the arse said unto Balaam, Am not I thine arse, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay.

31 Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam

Just because God used a donkey to provide direction to one person, doesnt mean asses (pun intended) should not be appointed to leadership roles in the church
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
62486 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:37 pm to
quote:

I think Paul was writing to the church in Corinth to help them get some order in place and not to make an all time decree.


I find doctrinal divisions fascinating.
Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6016 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

These prophesies were delivered in church as part of the teaching of the faith? Or as individual moments to certain individuals?



Y'all keep going back to that leadership portion of the text because the teaching part of the text is harder to refute.

1 Timothy 2:12

quote:

12 I do not let women teach men



If, as Paul writes in 1 Timothy, women are not to teach men................I'll say it again TEACH MEN, why then would God use a woman to teach King Josiah?



Y'all keep hitting the leadership portion but the teaching portion is just as much part of that passage as the rest of it. Stop running from it.






Can a woman teach a man or not?
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 2:42 pm
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
26945 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:40 pm to
quote:

They just don't want to make what some see as unnecessary changes when there are already methods to handle this issue.


Well that's a very boring headline.
Posted by LARancher1991
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2015
2060 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:44 pm to
Aren't Southern Baptists the ones that dance with snakes and don't allow you to drink?
Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6016 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

Aren't Southern Baptists the ones that dance


Nah they don't like dancing. Other part is right though.
Posted by KingOfTheWorld
South of heaven, west of hell
Member since Oct 2018
7356 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:46 pm to
Look at those fat, ugly lesbians.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
33408 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

I do not let women teach men

You dont know enough about the Bible to know what you are fighting for

Rabbi - literally means 'teacher'. What is a rabbi in a jewish community?
quote:

A rabbi is the spiritual leader or religious teacher. One becomes a rabbi by being ordained by another rabbi

A woman is never to be ordained to teach. End of discussion. God used asses. he can use women in individual settings. But not as the leader or teacher of a flock

Its not rocket surgery.
Posted by Knartfocker
Member since Jun 2020
1656 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:50 pm to
quote:

Aren't Southern Baptists the ones that dance with snakes


That's Pentecostal . Maybe more charismatic Baptist congregations may do something like snake dances or speaking in tongues. Don't know if they're affiliated with the SBC though

quote:

don't allow you to drink?


Can't be a pastor/deacon/whatever the woman equivalent is if you drink.
Posted by hashtag
Comfy, AF
Member since Aug 2005
32734 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

Aren't Southern Baptists the ones that dance with snakes and don't allow you to drink?

I'll answer the 2nd part with a joke:

how do you keep a southern baptist from drinking all your beer on a fishing trip?

invite 2 southern baptists
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
62486 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

If, as Paul writes in 1 Timothy, women are not to teach men................I'll say it again TEACH MEN, why then would God use a woman to teach King Josiah?


Interesting tactic in using the Old Testament to dispute the New Testament.
Posted by JiminyCricket
Member since Jun 2017
6016 posts
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

You dont know enough about the Bible to know what you are fighting for

Rabbi - literally means 'teacher'. What is a rabbi in a jewish community?


So your point is that Paul's point is, when he says teach in 1 timothy 2, that he is really referencing women becoming rabbi's/ ordination? That doesn't make complete sense when compared to the rest of the verse. First, he says they should not teach but he then follows it up with additional direction that they shouldn't have authority over men. If he meant leadership when he first said teach at the beginning of verse 12, why the need to be redundant and also prohibit them from authority roles? Wouldn't prohibiting them from teaching (or in this case being leaders) already be baked in if that was what he meant? He further writes that they should be quiet. Wouldn't that imply that he wants them not to teach OR hold a particular position?



quote:

A woman is never to be ordained to teach. End of discussion. God used asses. he can use women in individual settings. But not as the leader or teacher of a flock

Its not rocket surgery.



Is it permissible if she teaches without ordination?
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