re: Southern Baptist ban on women pastors fails in historic vote

Imagine calling someone insane when you literally believe something came from nothing and there is no creator. Not only are you wrong and nuts you will burn in Hell. Have fun with that.

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Imagine calling someone insane when you literally believe something came from nothing

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Oh, creation ex nihilo? Don’t project your fantasies onto me. That’s what foo man blew the Calvinist (saw that on another thread) does - project his faults onto others. Don’t be like him.

I don’t believe something came from nothing. I have no reason to believe such an idea because there is no evidence for it.

You guys on the other hand believe in creation ex nihilo because you misinterpret Genesis 1:1. In the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth. Wrong! That’s not what it says or means. Genesis 1:1 is not a sentence describing creation ex nihilo. Genesis 1:1 is a dependent clause. Here are some better more accurate ways to translate Genesis 1:1 into English:

- In the beginning as God began forming the heavens and the earth
- In the beginning when God began to form the heavens and the earth

It’s a dependent clause… the rest of the sentence is the stuff about the earth begging formless and void and darkness covered the earth. Genesis is not creation out of nothing. The earth is already there, but in a state of disorder and chaos. God creates the firmament - the solid dome in the sky over the flat disk of the earth - and uses it to separate the waters above the earth from the waters beneath it.

Literally no atheist believes something came from nothing. You are a retard for saying such a thing. Stop it.

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and there is no creator

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When there’s no evidence of such a thing, and ample evidence of there not being a creator, it would be silly to believe in one.

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you will burn in Hell.

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You too.

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Except he doesn’t. He provides half truths and whole lies. He provides speculation based on things taken out of context and ignores recorded history.

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I provide the truth and nothing but the truth. The truth is what the evidence shows to be the truth. I provide scientific facts which are evidently true, and provide quotes from your scriptures and quotes from other ancient books and plenty of supporting scholarly materials that are inconvenient to your fantasies.

The existence of an earthly Jesus is far from historical fact, and the resurrection is not a historical fact, despite your willingness to believe in fairy tales.

You don’t just ignore recorded history. You outright reject it.

I am still keen to understand your beliefs about dinosaurs on Noah’s ark and the biblical cosmology of the firmament and why you reject the scripture. I hope you are not embarrassed. Proclaim the good news to me.

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Jesus never existed.

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I’d love to scrutinize your source for this information. Bob Price? I know that you’re well aware that the overwhelming majority of your precious scholars (including Bart Err-man) profess that the evidence for a historical Jesus is irrefutable by the accepted standards of historical verification. Yet, you continue to go against the grain of scholarship- when it suits your needs. Talk about cherry-picking.


As usual, you spew out a barrage of unverifiable claims; passed off as certainty - while falsely accusing your opponent (who is merely defending the Word of God) of doing the very thing that you are doing. It’s a very clever tactic (for a losing position of weakness). It seems all to familiar. Oh yeah- democrats. I’m always happy to take on any of your “challenges,” but I’ve learned to try to hold you to one baseless claim at a time. So, let’s stick with the historicity of Jesus before moving on. Unless, of course, you have found a logical argument against the claims m that it’s ALWAYS immoral to beat up handicapped children for fun. I think we both know that ain’t happening.

My friend, you are a walking, talking, moderately intelligent- contradiction. You want all of the benefits of Christianity- law and order (I want you to really think about the many facets of order that you expect to see, that your worldview cannot account for. Start with gender “ideology” and your expectations of politician behavior- then work all the way down to how the gas station cashier refuses to acknowledge you when you say “good morning”). Yet, you are (like a child) unwilling to perform the actions required (bend your knee to Christ, genuinely attempt to follow His example); that are necessary to achieve your heart’s innermost desires. Much like the way you argue- you expect others to do that which you are not doing. As I’ve always said- you are consistent, if nothing else.

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I couldn't imagine a truer narrative. No one can, which is why every great work of literature is only a re purposing of Biblical themes. Wake up, man.

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Epic of Gilgamesh. Code of Hammurabi. Look them up. Read them. Understand when they were written. Read Genesis and Exodus and understand when they were written (about 500BCE per scholarly consensus).

Genesis 1-2 borrows from cultures nearby. This is done so that the important part can be easily understood. What of it?

Masters in history. I’ve taught the stuff.

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I'll give you this...you put a whole lot of effort not believing in something you don't believe in.

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Squirrelmeister is simply a lost, blind sinful man. We can’t expect him to know anything because he is blind to the truth. So he needs prayers. Maybe one day his eyes will be opened. I do hope so because what he’ll experience after this life, if he doesn’t repent and believe the gospel of Christ, is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. The choice is his.

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Wait, you don’t believe Jesus ever existed? That’s more illogical than trusting him to remake the world.

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How is it illogical to lack a belief in a person for which no evidence exists of his existence?

Paul’s seven legitimate epistles are our earliest Christian writings. 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Philemon, 1 Thessalonians, Romans, Galatians, Philippians. We also have what was call the first letter of bishop Clement to the Corinthians, written after Paul died and we also have the book of Revelation written by a person named “John”. None of those writings mention an earthly flesh and blood Jesus. Paul mentions over and over that Jesus was killed in heaven by the heavenly spirits - the “rulers of this age” who were “doomed to pass away” - and that he was resurrected by his father and be then appeared in visions and hallucinations to the apostles to tell them the gospel message. Paul or Clement never mention Jesus walking on water or healing the sick (casting out demons) or turning water to wine or the empty tomb of the gospels. That stuff hadn’t been invented yet.

Eusebius mentioned “Mark” for the first time in the mid second century, and all of a sudden the record shows all the church fathers started writing letters about the flesh and blood Jesus on earth. Within 20-30 years, we have at least tens of gospels including the edited versions of Mark (ie Matthew and Luke) and the re-written version “John” and most of what the church considers the heretical gospels like the gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Phillip and so on. “Mark” was written in Greek and very good Greek and composed in a literary style like Homer’s Odyssey (ring structure) and isn’t written like a historical account but written as a narrative story. Every single reference to an earthly Jesus comes from the gospel of “Mark”. There are no corroborative accounts of a Jesus on earth being crucified by Pontius Pilate. None. The two mentions in Antiquities of the Jews by Josephus are forgeries (scholarly consensus and it’s easy to see why.. would a Jew who was not a Christian claim that Jesus was resurrected and was the messiah?).

So for over a hundred years, no early Christian writings mention an earthly Jesus. But they did mention a Jesus in heaven helping the father to create the universe and that Jesus had been crucified in heaven and only appeared to the apostles after his death.

When Paul and “Peter” are writing letters to their churches arguing against each others’ teachings, they claim they didn’t learn anything about Jesus from any man, but rather by direct revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. For them and early Christians, direct revelation of Jesus was the highest authority. Don’t you think if Peter or James for that matter actually claimed to have known an earthly Jesus and learned things from Jesus directly on earth that they would have used such things in an argument? Nope, just like Paul, neither Peter nor James ever claimed to meet an earthly Jesus.

The gospels are just fan fiction and were used as tools to convert Gentiles who didn’t understand the religion of the Essenes.

And the start of Christianity by Paul and others was just fan fiction of a book now known as 1 Enoch. The Essenes had more copies of 1 Enoch in their Dead Sea scrolls than any other book.

Wouldn’t it be cool if we found an actual gospel account of a heavenly Jesus being killed by the spiritual archons of this aeon? And buried and resurrected in heaven? Like Paul wrote.

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6Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

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Though not written by Paul, it was probably a follower of Paul who wrote Ephesians 6:12

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For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

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Paul says Jesus was killed in heaven by the evil spirits living in heaven. If only there was a gospel account to match. If only.

Ascension of Isaiah
Ascension of Isaiah full text
Wiki article

So we have no historical evidence of an earthly Jesus, but have plenty of evidence that the earliest Christians believed Jesus was a heavenly being killed in heaven by other heavenly beings, and was resurrected in heaven, and then appeared in visions to the apostles.

Scholarly consensus is that the gospels are 100% fabricated fiction and that the earliest Christians believed in a celestial Jesus and that Josephus’ mentions of Jesus are forgeries, yet the consensus is a Jesus must’ve existed on earth… I don’t understand it really, but consider that many of these scholars sign contracts stating that they will never publicly admit the Jesus never existed else they’d be fired from their professorships.

50 years ago the scholarly consensus was the Abraham was a real guy and so was Moses. Now the consensus is that those guys are mythical creations of fiction. The same will be thought of Jesus in the next 20 years.

That’s fine. I get it. You enjoy being ignorant and it brings happiness to you to live in a false reality.