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Started By
Message
re: Somebody Explain The Potential Rail Strike
Posted on 9/13/22 at 6:15 pm to Catchfalaya
Posted on 9/13/22 at 6:15 pm to Catchfalaya
People are pissed about the state of America. The folks who make it work want to make a statement, especially when trains are being robbed and derailed without protection…
1
Posted on 9/13/22 at 7:32 pm to H2P
wait until UPS strikes next August when their contract expires.....
Posted on 9/13/22 at 9:06 pm to finkle
quote:
In my area, we have two pools going east out of KC, we have between 60-70 guys on these two boards, only 4 a day are allowed to layoff with a single VAC or PLD day. So, if you need off for any reason, only recourse is to layoff "non-compensated" which eats into those points. **The biggest point I need to stress here, is road crews have NO ASSIGNED DAYS OFF, that is correct, other then scheduled VAC or PLDs I am on call 24/7/365, birthdays/holidays/weekend/EVERYDAY**
Perhaps I am more mentally challenged than you anticipated because I still don’t understand most of what you just wrote.
Posted on 9/13/22 at 9:30 pm to Lightning
quote:
Perhaps I am more mentally challenged than you anticipated because I still don’t understand most of what you just wrote.
I'll try to do a better job for you and him both.. pools are boards of people.. I'll use where i work to best describe.. in Beaumont we have an East pool and west pool. East pool brings trains to Livonia, la from Beaumont, tx and West pool brings trains from Beaumont,tx to Houston,tx. Livonia and Houston are what we call away from home terminals. We stay in a hotel at those places anywhere from 10 hours when we're rested or until the next train is ready which could be over a 24 hour span of staying in the hotel. A VAC or PLD as he wrote assuming you knew what they were are a single vacation day or personal leave day. It's hard for us the get them on the day of. Most times we have to try to schedule a single day at least 4 days in advance if a slot is even available. Most of the time they are already filled up. These days are a paid day off.. now if we are unable to take a paid day off we can layoff (call in) sick which is not a paid day and you are docked so many points. After so many points in a 90 day span we are sent to investigation and wrote up and put on a probationary period. Layoffs on weekends and holidays are more points than the regular week but they add up really fast. Road crews are the pool boards that go from point a to point b stay the night and then go from point b back to point a(point a being home). Usually gone between 2-4 days at a time depending the location and back home between 10-24 hours before being called back out. We have no set schedule and work on call. We're subject to get a call as soon as 10 hours after clocking out(tying up). Once we get called to work, depending on the location, we have anywhere from an hour and a half to 3 hours to be at work. Hope that helped a little more.
This post was edited on 9/13/22 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 9/13/22 at 9:36 pm to Lightning
"Perhaps I am more mentally challenged than you anticipated because I still don’t understand most of what you just wrote."
We get this a lot, lingo and sayings that don't translate.
Road jobs, moving trains cross country are called "pool turns", and almost always work on call, with no scheduled days off. My example, I will take a train from Argentine Yard, KS to Galesburg, IL, that 281 miles. It's a great trip if I actually make it under that 12 hours, if not, we either secure the train, or a relief crew comes out to relieve us... Then ot the "Away from Home Terminal", the RR puts us up in a local hotel and we federal rest out, so we can perform service back to home terminal, this rest must be 10 hours undisturbed... my last trip i laid at the hotel 25.5 hours, we do go on held asaw pay after 16 hours. I had a 1130 trip home, So I was gone away from home for ~48 hours... The RR provides lodging and we get around $18 for a meal allowance after the 16th hour...
"60-70 guys on these two boards, only 4 a day are allowed to layoff with a single VAC or PLD day. So, if you need off for any reason, only recourse is to layoff "non-compensated" which eats into those points"
Here is the problem with this, those 4 days go to the seniority, you need the weekend to go johney baseball tourny, or your Daughters wedding and you weren't able to get pre-approved compensated time off, you had 30 points, a Fri/SAT/SUN just ate up 11 points, it will take you 6 weeks straight, of NO layoffs to earn those points back.
There are dozens of combinations on how to get dismissed with this policy, after 28 years of being in no trouble of any kind, one goofed up, unlucky week could find me terminated...
What we want, i predictable time off, more effort into running trains during windows or time frames so we can be rested...
I 100% guarantee you, half the trains running across this country tonight, have one or both crew members get a Suprise call for that train, not thinking they were going to work for 6-10 hour.... we've had several derailments in last couple of years were head ends of trains missed eash other by a few car lengths, statically, it's eventually going swing the other way...
We get this a lot, lingo and sayings that don't translate.
Road jobs, moving trains cross country are called "pool turns", and almost always work on call, with no scheduled days off. My example, I will take a train from Argentine Yard, KS to Galesburg, IL, that 281 miles. It's a great trip if I actually make it under that 12 hours, if not, we either secure the train, or a relief crew comes out to relieve us... Then ot the "Away from Home Terminal", the RR puts us up in a local hotel and we federal rest out, so we can perform service back to home terminal, this rest must be 10 hours undisturbed... my last trip i laid at the hotel 25.5 hours, we do go on held asaw pay after 16 hours. I had a 1130 trip home, So I was gone away from home for ~48 hours... The RR provides lodging and we get around $18 for a meal allowance after the 16th hour...
"60-70 guys on these two boards, only 4 a day are allowed to layoff with a single VAC or PLD day. So, if you need off for any reason, only recourse is to layoff "non-compensated" which eats into those points"
Here is the problem with this, those 4 days go to the seniority, you need the weekend to go johney baseball tourny, or your Daughters wedding and you weren't able to get pre-approved compensated time off, you had 30 points, a Fri/SAT/SUN just ate up 11 points, it will take you 6 weeks straight, of NO layoffs to earn those points back.
There are dozens of combinations on how to get dismissed with this policy, after 28 years of being in no trouble of any kind, one goofed up, unlucky week could find me terminated...
What we want, i predictable time off, more effort into running trains during windows or time frames so we can be rested...
I 100% guarantee you, half the trains running across this country tonight, have one or both crew members get a Suprise call for that train, not thinking they were going to work for 6-10 hour.... we've had several derailments in last couple of years were head ends of trains missed eash other by a few car lengths, statically, it's eventually going swing the other way...
This post was edited on 9/13/22 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 9/14/22 at 5:21 am to finkle
Disregard, question was previously answered on pg 2
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 5:25 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 5:45 am to BuckyCheese
quote:
It's obvious you have zero idea how an engineer's "schedule" works on the railroad.
quote:
BuckyCheese
It’s obvious you have zero idea how el gaucho works
Posted on 9/14/22 at 5:50 am to finkle
quote:
I 100% guarantee you, half the trains running across this country tonight, have one or both crew members get a Suprise call for that train, not thinking they were going to work for 6-10 hour....
I got to the point I could doze between signals and crossings while cruising at 50MPH between Milwaukee and Chicago. My body had the timing down to the second, opening my eyes to see the signal was clear. Dangerous as hell but hard to keep those eyes open when you've been up for 24+ hours because of a shitty lineup.
Of course the conductor was sound asleep...
The worst time is right before dawn. Could be fully rested and still have a tough time for that hour or so.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 7:58 am to BuckyCheese
Here it the quick run down:
Tier 1 carriers have already agreed to additional holiday days, new sign on bonuses, and 24% pay raises across the board. The Unions are being greedy and are demanding 35% pay raises and a bunch of changes to how and when employees have to come to work.
The Tier 1s simply can't accommodate their demands and keep their workforce intact. This is going to get ugly.
Tier 1 carriers have already agreed to additional holiday days, new sign on bonuses, and 24% pay raises across the board. The Unions are being greedy and are demanding 35% pay raises and a bunch of changes to how and when employees have to come to work.
The Tier 1s simply can't accommodate their demands and keep their workforce intact. This is going to get ugly.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 8:02 am to saints5021
They are not seeking additional raises, they agreed to the PEB recommendation. They are only holding out on the work rules part of the negotiations. Your information is wrong.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 8:52 am to finkle
quote:
We make ok money, but having to work 200 plus hours a month, ON CALL, plus the away from home time, another 100-150 is too much...
What were the hours expectations like when you hired on at the RR?
I agree those hours could suck.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 9:28 am to BuckyCheese
Same type of story, the inward facing camera have eliminated most of the nesting, but the RR could pull hundreds of hours of tape when they decide to.
To be fair, I've had conductors stand next to me all night feeding me coffee and talking to me when I've been caught short too... I dread if they actually get one man crew rammed thru...
To be fair, I've had conductors stand next to me all night feeding me coffee and talking to me when I've been caught short too... I dread if they actually get one man crew rammed thru...
Posted on 9/14/22 at 9:29 am to beerJeep
I very much enjoy when El Gaucho posts...
Posted on 9/14/22 at 9:39 am to saints5021
One additional Holiday
Sign on bonus are a result of 20ish% of workforce, mainly new guys, quitting since covid and the new high viz policy. When I hired out, 300 guys were trying to get 8 jobs, a few weeks ago in Galesburg, they tried to put on a class of 20, and only 4 of the selected show up for first day of training, that is with a $5-$15k sign on bonus, depending on location.
PEB did recommend 24% pay raise over a 5 year period, dating back to Jul 2020, at PEB Union asked for 28%, company offered 16%. Around 40% was floated around early on, not sure how accurate that number was, final Union ask was 28%
And finally, yes, changes to work rules that have been negotiated and agreed to over the years...
Sign on bonus are a result of 20ish% of workforce, mainly new guys, quitting since covid and the new high viz policy. When I hired out, 300 guys were trying to get 8 jobs, a few weeks ago in Galesburg, they tried to put on a class of 20, and only 4 of the selected show up for first day of training, that is with a $5-$15k sign on bonus, depending on location.
PEB did recommend 24% pay raise over a 5 year period, dating back to Jul 2020, at PEB Union asked for 28%, company offered 16%. Around 40% was floated around early on, not sure how accurate that number was, final Union ask was 28%
And finally, yes, changes to work rules that have been negotiated and agreed to over the years...
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 9:58 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 9:39 am to saints5021
quote:
carriers have already agreed to additional holiday days, new sign on bonuses, and 24% pay raises across the board.
Only one extra day not days, their sign on bonuses are trash to new hires because you only get a portion up front and don't get another portion until you've completed so many hours.. i know people that have been here 2½ years and still haven't worked enough to get the remainder due to being furloughed.
quote:
The Unions are being greedy and are demanding 35% pay raises and a bunch of changes to how and when employees have to come to work.
I haven't heard anything about unions demanding 35%. When they started negotiating a couple years ago they started at 40% just to highball the carriers knowing they wouldn't get that, then went into the peb earlier this year at 28% and after the peb recommendations now at 24%. The last sentence though is the main point. Quality of life.
Posted on 9/14/22 at 9:56 am to Meauxjeaux
We were told the same, nights/weekends/holidays/rain/shine/snow/etc... However, if needed or wanted a day, no questions asked, you just called the caller and marked off/took off. The railroad maintained an extra board(relief workers/extra manpower) for reasonable layoffs of assigned or pool workers.
I agree that old policy was way to liberal, for example, we have to work 7 days a month for health insurance to kick in, I was told by roughly 20-30% of the conductors I worked with first several years, they would have to be sure to stay marked up to get their insurance restarted... Same with Vacation and leave days, had to work a number of days in previous year to quilify for VAC, a LOT of guys didn't work enough, so didn't have vacation for following year... Again, i agree this wasn't a good thing...
2006-07 the "Attendance Policy" was put in place... Simply, you had to be "available" for work 75% of the time, AVAILABLE means on call/marked up for work, not necessarily at work, this is an important distinction, beings we are subject to call 24/7, roughly this worked out to being able to take off 5 weekdays and 2 weekend days a month, it could be rolled into a 90 day window, and pile up 10 days and 4 weekends. We didn't like it, but could see it was "fair" we had off roughly the same number days a 9-5/40 hour a week worker had...
Feb 2022 BNSF implemented "hi-viz" discussed earlier, I believe UP had a version of this for a year or two...
I know I'm doing a lousy job of summarizing this, but I'll keep trying...
I agree that old policy was way to liberal, for example, we have to work 7 days a month for health insurance to kick in, I was told by roughly 20-30% of the conductors I worked with first several years, they would have to be sure to stay marked up to get their insurance restarted... Same with Vacation and leave days, had to work a number of days in previous year to quilify for VAC, a LOT of guys didn't work enough, so didn't have vacation for following year... Again, i agree this wasn't a good thing...
2006-07 the "Attendance Policy" was put in place... Simply, you had to be "available" for work 75% of the time, AVAILABLE means on call/marked up for work, not necessarily at work, this is an important distinction, beings we are subject to call 24/7, roughly this worked out to being able to take off 5 weekdays and 2 weekend days a month, it could be rolled into a 90 day window, and pile up 10 days and 4 weekends. We didn't like it, but could see it was "fair" we had off roughly the same number days a 9-5/40 hour a week worker had...
Feb 2022 BNSF implemented "hi-viz" discussed earlier, I believe UP had a version of this for a year or two...
I know I'm doing a lousy job of summarizing this, but I'll keep trying...
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 10:00 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 10:11 am to finkle
quote:
Same type of story, the inward facing camera have eliminated most of the nesting, but the RR could pull hundreds of hours of tape when they decide to.
To be fair, I've had conductors stand next to me all night feeding me coffee and talking to me when I've been caught short too... I dread if they actually get one man crew rammed thru...
PTC was promoted as safety. It'll be used for one man crews.
Hell, they have the technology to run them no man. Now I'm not saying that is a good idea by any means as I know how things go on the road, but the tech is already here.
eta-What's the hi-viz policy?
This post was edited on 9/14/22 at 10:12 am
Posted on 9/14/22 at 10:22 am to BuckyCheese
"eta-What's the hi-viz policy?"
LOL, Mostly what I've been trying to explain, and doing a poor job of, A point system attendance policy that can deplete quickly, and take forever to recoup...
Railway Age Article
LOL, Mostly what I've been trying to explain, and doing a poor job of, A point system attendance policy that can deplete quickly, and take forever to recoup...
Railway Age Article
Posted on 9/14/22 at 10:29 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
What's going to happed to gasoline prices if the trains stop running? Joe stopped the Keystone XL Pipeline so Warren Buffet could haul oil on his Burlington Northern/Santa Fe Railroad.
Bingo. And there shouldn't even be talk of a rail strike. I mean Warren Buffet pays less taxes than his secretary so he should sign right off on this, no?
Posted on 9/14/22 at 10:34 am to finkle
quote:
"eta-What's the hi-viz policy?"
LOL, Mostly what I've been trying to explain, and doing a poor job of, A point system attendance policy that can deplete quickly, and take forever to recoup...
Gotcha. I knew about the point system you guys have but didn't know the name of it.
I saw hi viz and first thought "They made us wear those stupid vests 20 years ago."
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