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re: Should Merica continue to "protect" NATO allies that cut defense spending?

Posted on 11/30/17 at 12:43 am to
Posted by Evolved Simian
Bushwood Country Club
Member since Sep 2010
23259 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 12:43 am to
quote:

Germany and France are all in the top ten in the world in military spending.


frick that stupid shite. Germany and France refuse to even meet the minimum requirement for spending required by NATO.

The goddamn broke Greeks spend more of their GDP than the French or Germans on defense.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
298878 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 1:06 am to
Nope
Posted by junior
baton rouge
Member since Mar 2005
2648 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 6:02 am to
My biggest problem w NATO is that we are in WWIII if Russia attacks Turkey.
You know, the country that shot down a Russian jet and survived a military coup within the last few years.
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 6:17 am to
No they are violating the agreement
Posted by elprez00
Hammond, LA
Member since Sep 2011
31550 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 6:30 am to
You can hate the US all you want, but you can argue one of the main reasons there hasn’t been a global conflict for the past 70 years is because of America’s military presence in the world. It’s also the driving factor for the rise of asymmetrical warfare.

If America pulled out its military presence, I’d believe there would be very real consequences. It’s a Catch 22. We’d be abandoning posts we’d have to fight to take back in the future because the rest of the world is not equipped to fight their own battles.
Posted by Breesus
Unplug
Member since Jan 2010
69549 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 6:35 am to
quote:


Timmy will be just fine fighting the next war. Susie on the other hand has zero business serving in the military.


You realize Timmy is a genetic female who identifies as a male and Susie was born a male but had his penis cut off and now claims to be a genderfluid dragonkin, right? Neither should be in the military.
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17711 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 8:09 am to
quote:

You could combine the entirety of of all three countries land forces and you'd barely have one full strength army corps. Even if you add in reserves you'd maybe be able to scrape together another Corps sized unit.

If Russia massed their forces and struck west, they'd be in Paris before anyone could do more than lodge a formal complaint at the UN.


C'mon bro... I respect your background and have loved discussing military topics with you in the past but that's a little too bleak

If Russia massed their forces here's what would happen

They'd have to mass their forces in Belarus as a direct invasion through Ukraine would ween down their forces before ever approaching Poland. The Baltic states have been preparing for a guerilla style war against Russia for a decade

Russian forces would penetrate as far as the countryside of Poland before their supply lines are cutoff by NATO airstrikes

Should Russia reach Germany:

Everyone knows that the Russians heavily rely on armor. The Germans have planned for a Russian invasion for more than 75 years. they would have countermeasures in place to make the Russians pay for every step they took within their borders with lightweight antiarmor being a focal point of their defense.

This isn't the Cold War. Russia doesn't have an Eastern European Bloc they could stage equipment. Prior to 1993 they already owned 50% of Europe but now they would have to march their army across the entire continent.

A Russian invasion would look much like the Battle of The Bulge. A deep pentetration behind lines before eventually being surrounded and swallowed up by a mobile counterattack.
This post was edited on 11/30/17 at 8:11 am
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
47294 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 10:40 am to
quote:

Merica has a huge military. Merica is in a defense treaty with NATO allies. Most NATO allies have cut their defense budgets to dismal levels (cough UK cough). Why should we foot the bill to protect these jacklegs from Ol Vlad and Xi?



Merica is spending less as a percentage of GDP now than we did just about any time post WW2. Significantly less than just a few decades ago.


We also have fewer personnel than we have had in a very long time

The end of the cold war signaled a start to shrinking militaries in the west.

NATO serves a purpose, who pays what is determined by a formula. The US is the richest country in the treaty so pays the largest share. Here is some info from this article.

NATO

quote:

Member countries contribute in line with an agreed cost-sharing formula, based on Gross National Income. (GNI equals GDP plus income obtained in dividends, interest etc. from other countries.) Under that formula, the U.S. contributes 22.144 percent of the NATO budget, followed by Germany (14.65 percent), France (10.63 percent) and Britain (9.84 percent).





There is also good info about who is not meeting the stated goals of military spending, Britain does, France and Germany, not so much.

I actually have more issues with funding the UN.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95593 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 10:52 am to
NATO is obsolete. It was the continuation of a very necessary alliance in the face of a new threat from post-war Soviet aggression. That alliance is 2 generations old and has devolved into nothing more than a continent-wide, military "wealth" redistribution program from the U.S. to their NATO allies, with little (or nothing) in return.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50737 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 10:55 am to
We shouldn't be "protecting" anyone other than America.

It's not our job.
Posted by Marco Montana
New Hampshire
Member since Nov 2017
17 posts
Posted on 11/30/17 at 10:57 am to
No! Its stupid as a matter of fact I think we pay Denmarks military budget?
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