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re: Satanic Temple puts up display at Michigan Capital

Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:53 pm to
Posted by Blue Velvet
Apple butter toast is nice
Member since Nov 2009
20112 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:53 pm to
You hold that same belief for Odin?
Posted by monsterballads
Gulf of America
Member since Jun 2013
31513 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:00 pm to
quote:

But, currently there is zero evidence that God does not exist.


I don't think you understand how this works
Posted by monsterballads
Gulf of America
Member since Jun 2013
31513 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:18 pm to
quote:

What evidence do you have that there is no God?


I didn't make the claim that one existed. you did. now you prove it.
Posted by monsterballads
Gulf of America
Member since Jun 2013
31513 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:20 pm to
quote:

Prove it.


why do I have to prove something that I didn't make the claim to? what a silly thread
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59878 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:25 pm to
quote:

why do I have to prove something that I didn't make the claim to? what a silly thread


this is a good point, but ask yourself this question. Why do you exist rather than not exist?

Theist will argue that when you ask the fundamental questions about reality the only reason that these are answered the way they are is because God exists.
Posted by CollegeFBRules
Member since Oct 2008
25720 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:37 pm to
quote:

Theist will argue that when you ask the fundamental questions about reality the only reason that these are answered the way they are is because God exists.


Which really is just a God of the Gaps argument until science can explain things that are as of now unknown.

I have the utmost respect of a person's faith so long as that faith doesn't impact another's liberty.
Posted by JazzyJeff
Japan
Member since Sep 2006
3938 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:37 pm to
quote:

this is a good point, but ask yourself this question. Why do you exist rather than not exist?

Theist will argue that when you ask the fundamental questions about reality the only reason that these are answered the way they are is because God exists.

The only logical answer to existence is God. The materialist answer requires a belief in magic.
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59878 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 9:40 pm to
quote:

The only logical answer to existence is God. The materialist answer requires a belief in magic.



that won't go over to well in here

But I agree with you, materialist thinking is self defeating.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46851 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 10:02 pm to
quote:

Jesus was a Jew. At the time the Jewish religion was a mockery with followers having to pay priests for sacrifices and only with money that had been cleansed. Of course it costs to change your money. The priests took animals to the top of the temple and "sacrificed" them by supposedly burning them but often they'd kill the sheep and burn the guts and keep the meat for themselves.

They were sell outs to the Romans. They had in a sense sold their soul and turned in rebellious Jews in exchange for protection from Caesar.
I agree with all of this.

quote:

Jesus set out to reform Judaism, not to start another religion. He continued the traditions of Judaism. So did the apostles.
Jesus wasn't setting out to "reform" anything about Judaism. He said a number of times what His mission was: He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10). I'm sure you've heard/read John 3:16. Even Jesus' cousin, a fellow Jew, knew what Jesus came to do (John 1:29). Jesus foretold His own death several times and the reason for it, such as in Matt. 20:28. The goal was always to be killed as a sacrifice after fulling the law of God so that He could save people from their sins. If His goal was to reform Judaism, what would dying on the cross do for that cause? In John 19:30, He said "it is finished" (like, "mission accomplished") because the mission was to save sinners and His death on the cross sealed the deal.

The rest of the epistles reiterate the same point.

quote:

James and Peter were not at all please with Paul's bastardazation of the religion. They eventually compromised. And the destruction of Rome destroyed the true church of what Jesus left behind.
Could you be more specific? What, exactly, did Paul teach that is contrary to what the rest of scripture?

quote:

Jesus and the Apostles would be very surprised to see what became of what they were.
Jesus wouldn't be surprised since He is God, but I get your point. The apostles would have been surprised to see what has become of the faith, but not because the teachings of Paul.

quote:

Plus you can look at it logically.... For 3000 years God's chosen people were the Jews then all of a sudden he pivots and says never mind... Don't do what I asked you to do for 3000 years... Ignore all that and my followers who continue following my words. They're wrong. For the next 2000 years we're doing something new.
But that's not what happened at all. The entire Old Testament was a foreshadowing of Jesus' mission to save the world. Jesus was the culmination of what all those laws were pointing to. Jesus came to fulfill the law because no one else could.

You act like the Old Testament and New Testament are completely unrelated and that Christianity is some sort of dramatic shift, but that's not the case at all. The entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments, are part of a single story of redemption.
Posted by CollegeFBRules
Member since Oct 2008
25720 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 10:44 pm to
quote:

The materialist answer requires a belief in magic.




What exactly do you think believing in an all-powerful, all-knowing creator is?
Posted by monsterballads
Gulf of America
Member since Jun 2013
31513 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:02 pm to
I just find the whole "prove my imaginary friend doesn't exist!" rebuttal hilarious from posters like NC_Tigah, who is seemingly very intelligent otherwise.
Posted by JazzyJeff
Japan
Member since Sep 2006
3938 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:28 pm to
quote:

What exactly do you think believing in an all-powerful, all-knowing creator is?
It's either a transcendent, immanent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being who exists outside of space and time from which all things move and have their being, OR the universe is a self-contained unit of random brute events that somehow magically came into existence and magically sustains itself.

Choose logic and reason (God)

OR

Magic (Atheism/materialism)
Posted by CollegeFBRules
Member since Oct 2008
25720 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:32 pm to
quote:

It's either a transcendent, immanent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being who exists outside of space and time from which all things move and have their being, OR the universe is a self-contained unit of random brute events that somehow magically came into existence and magically sustains itself.


Or it's small individuals in an infinite universe who cannot comprehend the wonders of the universe / multi-verse so they create a magician they make in their own image because those individuals need a nice, neat package to understand what they view as brutal chaos.
Posted by JazzyJeff
Japan
Member since Sep 2006
3938 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:35 pm to
quote:

I just find the whole "prove my imaginary friend doesn't exist!" rebuttal hilarious from posters like NC_Tigah, who is seemingly very intelligent otherwise.

No ones asking you to do that. It's just what is a more logical explanation for existence? Did a mindless, random universe create itself out of non-existence or is there a transcendent being who IS existence responsible?
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 11:43 pm
Posted by FT
REDACTED
Member since Oct 2003
26925 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:39 pm to
CFBR, I'm really sort of surprised that you're not a theist. Or at least an agnostic that leans toward the existence of a God. I'm not going to get into anything personal here, but from some limited discussion we've had, I sort of assumed that you were more on the side of "there's more likely than not a god".
Posted by JazzyJeff
Japan
Member since Sep 2006
3938 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:41 pm to
quote:

Or it's small individuals in an infinite universe who cannot comprehend the wonders of the universe / multi-verse so they create a magician they make in their own image because those individuals need a nice, neat package to understand what they view as brutal chaos.
I believe in God, not a magician. You're confused and you side stepped the premise. All you can do is trot out your straw man or the old stand-by canard that we poor little helpless theists just need to believe.
Posted by CollegeFBRules
Member since Oct 2008
25720 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:42 pm to
Every time you phrase the question, you make it sound like the potential for a multi-verse is crazy but the existence of a god completely logical. It's ridiculous.

1000 years ago, the Earth was the center of the universe and everything rotated around it. Since then, we've come to understand miracles of yesterday were completely understandable and not mystical. God shrinks as science progresses. You can fight it all you want, but God exists only in the gaps where science hasn't yet filled in the blanks.

I don't have a problem with a faith that exists there, so long as people are willing to accept scientific breakthroughs when they happen, regardless of what it means about one's ideological beliefs.
Posted by CollegeFBRules
Member since Oct 2008
25720 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:43 pm to
There isn't a god.
Posted by CollegeFBRules
Member since Oct 2008
25720 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:47 pm to
quote:

All you can do is trot out your straw man or the old stand-by canard that we poor little helpless theists just need to believe.


Do you realize you live under the premise that God exists because the bible tells me so, even though I have no actual proof that God exists.

BUT

When science admits there are things we do not yet have the ability to understand because our technology has not peered into all the mysterious shadows of the universe, that's carte blanche to default to, "See, it's God."
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37341 posts
Posted on 12/23/14 at 11:47 pm to
quote:

Did a mindless, random universe create itself out of non-existence or is there a transcendent being who IS existence responsible?
Who said anything about a mindless universe. I think this is where religion gets in trouble, in that it tries to deny the possibility regardless of evidence in order to make the universe fit into their religious beliefs. A long time ago it was denying that the Earth was the center of the solar system, then it became that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Evolution is still denied by many as clearly it would throw the entire Old Testament out the window. Now the universe has to be mindless or else God created it.

Can anyone explain why God would create such a huge universe but only care about humans on Earth? What about the animals, why didn't they get souls?
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