re: Sam Harris on Maher re: Immigration/Muslim Extremists

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That's how stupid you liberals are. You can't just force people to change their views. Life doesn't work like that.

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So human beings have never changed their views or behaviors since the beginning of time. Got it.

I like lot of what her said, but I have a few issues:

One, if the media and liberals don't screech about this pause being a "Muslim ban", then we don't lose that particular war of ideas in the first place. Harken back to Obama's pause on Iraq. No one made a fuss and people treated it for what it was. That could have happened here, but liberals couldn't help themselves.

He is wildly overstating the moderate muslim community and their power in the Muslim world. Later in his talk, he even touched on it. We should allow millions of refugees in and give voice to moderate muslims who represent a small minority of thought, and wait for things to change? How many American lives is that worth? Do we need to see the US become Europe, rotting with cultural decay and terrorism, before we say enough? Sharia culture isn't going anywhere. We sure as hell aren't going to "love it away".

He seems to loathe "Trumpians", but he fails to acknowledge that fundamentalist muslims are the other side of the American redneck coin. We should give voice to strong moderare muslims, but we need to marginalize and destroy jihadist and protect our country as well. There is nothing in this travel ban, save liberal rhetoric, that compromises that.

I think he at least recognizes that Trump was born of Obama and modern, progressive mishandling of pretty much everything.

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I'm not sure how a Muslim, even a moderate one, can look at the spiritually empty West and think that those values represent a step up. While we enjoy tremendous material wealth that is worlds beyond the wildest imagination, there is no satisfying 'answer' or purpose in Western liberal values. Islam has those, even if the implementation of them ends up being shitty.

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See, we already found some common ground!

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So human beings have never changed their views or behaviors since the beginning of time. Got it.

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Naturally over time. Most countries with Muslim majority are ruled under Muslim ideology with laws more in line with teaching of the Quran. Compared to the U.S. which is based on the separation of church and state, the culture of these other Muslim countries where the rule of law (shariah law) is Entrenched in their religious beliefs it's a lot harder for them to naturally transition because it literally rules their lives. They said it in the video, even when assimilated in other cultures you still have a significant number of Muslims openly wanting to be under Shariah Law and saying it's ok to arrest a cartoonist for drawing Muhammad. I'm positive that the 7 country moratorium won't do any good because if someone wants to harm Americans they will be able to now or later but I am willing to applaud the effort of this administration for attempting to at least look like they are trying to keep Americans safe.

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In order to enjoy and live peaceably in the West, they would have to abandon an Islamic mindset and adapt a secularized, humanist value set, like most Christians and Jews have done (even if they don't like to admit it).

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Agreed, and many of them are doing this.

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This is a tremendous leap and not something that can be done externally, I think.

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Right, which is why Harris's point about reform from within is the salient one.

I blame the Mongols for destroying Baghdad. The Umayyads and following Emirates in Iberia were much more liberal than current iterations, too, oddly enough.

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Just as Christianity has moderated over time,

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Christianity was founded by a peaceful person that genuinely loved everybody and practiced peaceful and serene ways of living.

It was in the character of christians to moderate and evolve over time.

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so too do I hope that moderate Muslims can rein in the wackjobs over time.

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Islam was started by a pedophile, raping, slaving, maiming, pillaging and murdering warlord that consistently sought conquest on people who did not accept his beliefs and that of his followers. And the Koran reflects philosophy and muslims follow it more religiously more than christians do with the bible.

Just ask yourself, why is the mideast still a complete 3rd world shithole despite civilization starting there and existing longer than 1st world countries like Europe and America?

Islam is a scourge that currently holds a monopoly on terrorism and jihad on this Earth and its time to start treating them like it.

I don't think that's necessarily the most pragmatic view to hold when considering how to handle the problem. What is the inevitable conclusion to that line of thinking?

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You can google and see pics of women at work without burkas, in libraries or offices, in the 20th century.

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Mmmmm, colonialism. Yes please.

Iran wasn't a colony