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re: Russia and Ukraine Exchanging Fire in Kerch Strait
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:20 pm to KoachKletus
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:20 pm to KoachKletus
Sanctions are empty moral posturing. And make you look weak.
If you’re going to do something, do it. Don’t pretend.
If you’re going to do something, do it. Don’t pretend.
1
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:22 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:Sanctions are great man! They let politicians say they did something without actually doing anything.
Sanctions are empty moral posturing. And make you look weak.
Simply put sanctions are fricking stupid and there’s more evidence to suggest that they cause more long term damage than doing nothing would have done.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:22 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
highly doubt Ukraine is stupid enough to declare war against Russia
I don’t know, I think they might be dumb enough!
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:33 pm to Eurocat
When we wargame it, it always ends in a nuclear exchange.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:35 pm to OleWar
quote:
Link to this theory, not saying that the ship didn't show up in Odessa, but that didn't cause Russia to halt its offensive.
quote:LINK
From 28th September to 7th October 2018, ships from Standing Maritime Group Two (SNMG2) participated in the Turkish led exercise Mavi Balina 2018. Mavi Balina 2018 is a bi annual anti-submarine warfare exercise hosted by the Turkish Navy off the coast of Turkey in the eastern Mediterranean designed to increase readiness and interoperability across the participating units. Turkish Navy hosted Mavi Balina 2018 was executed as a serialized exercise in order to, sharpen the ASW/ASUW skills of the participating submarines, provide ASW training at unit and surface task group level and practice the tactics applicable in real world operations. Consisting of flagship, the Royal Netherlands Navy frigate HNLMS De Ruyter, Royal Canadian Navy frigate HMCS Ville De Quebec and Spanish Navy frigate ESPS Cristobal Colon, SNMG2 joined ships, submarines and air assets from Turkish, Pakistan, Romania and US navies.
quote:LINK
Underscoring the current crisis, on Sept. 23 two Ukrainian navy vessels effectively ran Russia’s de facto blockade of the Sea of Azov. On Sept. 20, the two Ukrainian naval vessels, the Donbas and the Korets, left the port of Odesa on the Black Sea. (Both ships were seized by Russian forces during the 2014 invasion and annexation of Crimea. The Kremlin later returned the ships to Ukraine.) On Sept. 23, Russian vessels escorted the Ukrainian ships “under complicated circumstances” as they passed through the strait, Ukraine’s navy reported.
Ok I was mistaken. There was an increased NATO naval presence in the Aegean sea and the eastern MediterraneanSea. It is just a theory, but I find it hard to believe that it was just a coincidence that Russia let 2 Ukrainian naval boats pass through the straits when there was an increased NATO naval presence close enough to respond, but they attacked the Ukrainian boats when the increased NATO presence was not there.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:37 pm to WeeWee
I wouldn’t say that the Aegean Sea is close enough to respond to the Black Sea.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:41 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
West of the Dniepper, sure, they don’t like Russia. And that becomes more and more true the further west you go. East of the Dniepper, it’s very different. People are very pro Russian.
I’m on my phone, but google Party of Regions and election map.
It will show you how divide the country is, and how strong those divisions are. The Donbas voted for the Party of Regions at a ratio of 9 to 1.
That was in 2012.
That was in 2014. The POR fell apart in 2014, but he opposition bloc which is the successor to the Party of Regions only got 20-40% of the vote in the "russian-speaking" areas of Ukraine which is a 20% decrease in just 2 years.
The war has backfired big time and most Ukrainians are now pro-western. This is just one of many articles written in the last 4 years talking about how Putin's war has backfired and united Ukraine.
So basically, the only people that are still pro-russian are the 100,000 or so Ukrainian citizens that stayed in the DPR and LPR.
This post was edited on 11/25/18 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:43 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I wouldn’t say that the Aegean Sea is close enough to respond to the Black Sea.
The US and/or NATO could have warships in the Black Sea in a matter of days and air assets in the Black Sea in a matter of hours back then. Not so much now.
Again I am not advocating for the US to get involved. I am advocating for the US to make some money by selling Ukraine more weapons.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:44 pm to Northwestern tiger
quote:
good for Russia
Why?
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:53 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Again I am not advocating for the US to get involved. I am advocating for the US to make some money by selling Ukraine more weapons.
We give them $200 million in military aid, maybe US defense industry can make a little more money at US taxpayer expense.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:55 pm to OleWar
We should support our allies and screw rooskies.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:58 pm to Eurocat
quote:How?
We should support our allies and screw rooskies.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 5:58 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
But let’s say we do that, how long would it take us to get there?
Less than a week. Which is not enough time to help the three boats, but it is enough time to prevent a Russian invasion across the Sea of Avoz.
quote:
Could we do so before the crisis ended?
Which crisis? The only way this war ends is when Ukraine pulls an Israel and regains its nuclear weapons. Until then Putin and his successor will not view Ukraine as a legit nation.
quote:
And what happens if the Russians simply ignore our presence?
Then Trump gives Poroshenko the wink and the nod to secretly rebuild nukes. Ukraine already has the missile tech and the knowledge and the nuclear material. All it would need is cover in the UN Security Council.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:06 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Not that any of the European militaries could handle Russia
It would do the Western European countries a lot of good to get their shite kicked in by the Russians. Maybe they’ll stop being such pussies then. Just sucks because Hungary and Poland would be first to fall and they’re alpha as hell.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:06 pm to Eurocat
quote:
It's called helping an ally not be invaded by a bully.
So you are on record of supporting us going to war?
Do you already have your "Trump is a warmonger" signs printed for the next election?
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:13 pm to Eurocat
quote:
We should support our allies and screw rooskies.
We’ve come a long way from selling Russia all of our uranium and “the 1980’s called they want their foreign policy back”
How stupid was Obama
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:21 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Again I am not advocating for the US to get involved. I am advocating for the US to make some money by selling Ukraine more weapons.
We've never really sold them much of anything. Up armored Humvees and sniper rifles
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:23 pm to Gus007
Yes I am on the record as supporting us going to war to defend democratic Ukraine.
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:24 pm to Eurocat
quote:
Yes I am on the record as supporting us going to war to defend democratic Ukraine.
Why?
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:25 pm to Eurocat
quote:And if Ukraine declares war on Russia? I mean the statute of limitations on Crimea and the Donbass has kind of expired in my opinion.
Yes I am on the record as supporting us going to war to defend democratic Ukraine.
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