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re: Rational Questions that the Shutdown "WEAR A MASK" Crowd Can't Answer
Posted on 6/30/20 at 12:58 pm to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 6/30/20 at 12:58 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
It shows that restaurants had already started going into a deep freeze prior to shutdowns:
Not really. It shows the drop in diner reservations from Opentable, not businesses willingly shutting down.
quote:
Amazon, MSFT and Facebook essentially sent employees home starting the very first week of March. That had nothing to do with govt orders.
Ok, but those 3 are not exactly representative of all business culture. I'm not saying businesses didn't do this in regards to precautions for their workers, but the 3 you cited are big tech companies that could afford to allow workers to not come in. It wasn't until the government mandated shutdowns, and the prolonged shutdown orders, did companies start going upside down.
1
Posted on 6/30/20 at 1:07 pm to BugAC
quote:Well, if there is no vaccination (there will be by Nov IMO), and if there is no substantially mitigating treatment (there will be by Fall IMO), then we wear masks until herd immunity ends the threat .... as was the case 1918-1920.
So never?
Posted on 6/30/20 at 1:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
there will be by Nov IMO
Why November? Because the elections will be over and there is nothing more to gain politically from mandated shut downs?
quote:
, then we wear masks until herd immunity ends the threat .
Wouldn't herd immunity quicken without masks? Why delay?
Posted on 6/30/20 at 1:20 pm to BugAC
quote:
6) When flu season starts, will the same maskers demand masks be worn at this time as well?
When Flu season starts you will see an increase in covid cases....This will just give them the narrative that its going to get worse...and its just the flu
Posted on 6/30/20 at 1:30 pm to BugAC
tldr;
I would better understand this dang virus but have been watching so much of the Prez speak on Wuhan/Kung Flu that I have no idear what next lie is coming out of his pie hole.
I would better understand this dang virus but have been watching so much of the Prez speak on Wuhan/Kung Flu that I have no idear what next lie is coming out of his pie hole.
Posted on 6/30/20 at 1:38 pm to Jake88
quote:
Masks do work on cutting down the spread. I've seen it happen firsthand in nursing home-like settings over the last three months
Libtard
Posted on 6/30/20 at 1:39 pm to BugAC
quote:A week or so after this, reservations were down nearly 100%. How many businesses "willingly" stay open with 0 customers?
Not really. It shows the drop in diner reservations from Opentable, not businesses willingly shutting down.
quote:Yeah, that's just not clear at all. A new study points to a different result:
Ok, but those 3 are not exactly representative of all business culture. I'm not saying businesses didn't do this in regards to precautions for their workers, but the 3 you cited are big tech companies that could afford to allow workers to not come in. It wasn't until the government mandated shutdowns, and the prolonged shutdown orders, did companies start going upside down.
quote:
The collapse of economic activity in 2020 from COVID-19 has been immense. An important question is how much of that collapse resulted from government-imposed restrictions on activity versus people voluntarily choosing to stay home to avoid infection. This paper examines the drivers of the economic slowdown using cellular phone records data on customer visits to more than 2.25 million individual businesses across 110 different industries. Comparing consumer behavior over the crisis within the same commuting zones but across state and county boundaries with different policy regimes suggests that legal shutdown orders account for only a modest share of the massive changes to consumer behavior (and that tracking county-level policy conditions is significantly more accurate than using state-level policies alone). While overall consumer traffic fell by 60 percentage points, legal restrictions explain only 7 percentage points of this. Individual choices were far more important and seem tied to fears of infection. Traffic started dropping before the legal orders were in place; was highly influenced by the number of COVID deaths reported in the county; and showed a clear shift by consumers away from busier, more crowded stores toward smaller, less busy stores in the same industry. States that repealed their shutdown orders saw symmetric, modest recoveries in activity, further supporting the small estimated effect of policy. Although the shutdown orders had little aggregate impact, they did have a significant effect in reallocating consumer activity away from “nonessential” to “essential” businesses and from restaurants and bars toward groceries and other food sellers.
LINK
Posted on 6/30/20 at 1:58 pm to BugAC
I'll bite, especially on the really easy ones.
Neither method is 100% effective, nor has either been advocated as such. Thus, each by themselves, has a chance to reduce spread. In combination, it's a greater chance to reduce.
Look at the case count and hospitalization numbers. The curve went down, and now it's going up again. I.e. it hasn't been "flattened for a long time." That's just factually wrong.
The fact that there is no final date does make this frustrating, but I don't think there's anybody saying this is expected to last 5 years either, so your question is hyperbolic.
Well, there is a flu vaccine, so that's one noticeable difference between the two viruses...
I'm not wearing one in my house or car, or when I'm just with my family, but I haven't seen anyone ask me to do that.
Now a couple questions for you:
1) Is wearing a mask difficult or complicated?
2) Is obtaining a mask difficult or expensive?
3) On a scale of 1 to 10, rate how uncomfortable wearing a mask is.
quote:
2) If masks work, then why are we social distancing? If social distancing works, then why do we have to wear masks?
Neither method is 100% effective, nor has either been advocated as such. Thus, each by themselves, has a chance to reduce spread. In combination, it's a greater chance to reduce.
quote:
4) 3 gives way to point 1. We are no longer in danger of running out of supplies. Which means the curve has been flattened for a long time. So why are we still shutting down?
Look at the case count and hospitalization numbers. The curve went down, and now it's going up again. I.e. it hasn't been "flattened for a long time." That's just factually wrong.
quote:
5) When does this end? Idiots are running around saying, "just wear the damn mask so we can open up". For how long? Am i supposed to accept that wearing the mask is what is needed for the rest of our lives?
The fact that there is no final date does make this frustrating, but I don't think there's anybody saying this is expected to last 5 years either, so your question is hyperbolic.
quote:
6) When flu season starts, will the same maskers demand masks be worn at this time as well?
Well, there is a flu vaccine, so that's one noticeable difference between the two viruses...
quote:
8) For the maskers, what is your limit before you tell the "officials" NO?
I'm not wearing one in my house or car, or when I'm just with my family, but I haven't seen anyone ask me to do that.
Now a couple questions for you:
1) Is wearing a mask difficult or complicated?
2) Is obtaining a mask difficult or expensive?
3) On a scale of 1 to 10, rate how uncomfortable wearing a mask is.
Posted on 6/30/20 at 2:05 pm to SEC. 593
quote:
I have got my PhD in Biochemistry and have worked with viruses in the pharma industry for the last 15 years. I wish the issue of wearing masks hadn't taken the political direction it has taken, because they work. Companies spend 10s of millions of dollars on masks to protect 100s of billions of dollars of product every year. The only thing that provides more protection than masks from human contamination is gloves...
You're wasting your time in this place, man. Don't even bother. It's not worth it.
Posted on 6/30/20 at 2:26 pm to Microtiger
Posted on 6/30/20 at 6:06 pm to SEC. 593
quote:
I have got my PhD in Biochemistry and have worked with viruses in the pharma industry for the last 15 years. I wish the issue of wearing masks hadn't taken the political direction it has taken, because they work...
I fully agree with your assessment that PROPER masks and gloves obviously can help mitigate spread of infectious diseases. Of course masks generally work when in higher risk reasonably controlled clinical-type environments (especially when used by people familiar with infection control procedures) BUT there are so many additional variables when requesting John Q. Public to use them everywhere they go that I’m currently of the opinion it causes people to drop their defenses and make it MORE likely to spread pathogens and self-infect.
-First and foremost, how effective are these common “masks”, and if not effective does it make people more likely to let their guard down?
-If a mask is not sealed and someone does cough/sneeze/or even just routine breathing, sure some of the expiration is entrapped within the material, but is it also pushed further into the surrounding environment via a higher pressure through the path of least resistance? E.g. shooting something through a straw versus forcefully exhaling through your mouth, or putting your thumb over a garden hose versus letting it flow naturally.
-How often are they being disposed of? How many people take them and put them in their pocket or wherever else when not in use? Are they just nets for collecting and transporting more pathogens than without a mask?
-I’ve often seen them hanging from rear view mirror with the outside of one against the inside of another.
-People wearing masks often stand obliviously close to others’ personal space simply because they feel safe in a mask.
Same goes for gloves. Of course in clinical settings gloves are changed between any new task, and should only be exposed to the one potential source of biohazard. People in gloves feel protected, so they go on to touch everything with those gloves. I’ve grown to assume that all gloves are dirty, and if someone touches me or anything of mine wearing gloves I always assume it’s now contaminated. However now, people just go around touching surface to surface simply because they have gloves on.
I truly wish there was a good way to quantify the differences of our entire population using only the common sense distancing and proper hygiene protocols versus everyone wearing these makeshift masks. But alas, it seems like everything must be polarizing these days if you don’t think “right” (i.e think the mass common opinion) then you’re just ignorant, hateful, and wrong.
So I guess my main question is...in vivo is it really going to make a difference, and if so, is it simply going to prolong the time until herd immunity is achieved?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 8:48 am to AGreySlate
Added another question for the pro-maskers. See #12 in the OP (also below).
12) If masks work so well, then why aren't the areas requiring masks for penalty of fines/imprisonment, also enforcing via fines/imprisonment, the proper wearing/handling of a facemask? We are supposed to believe that these masks are the savior to the world, so much so that idiots are mandating people wear them or go to prison. Yet, they are not mandating people wear them properly. Why? How many stores have you walked into with people wearing masks sitting below their nose, or hanging off their ear? Even Latoya the Destroya was using her mask to wipe sweat off her face. Why is she not in prison per her current rulings?
12) If masks work so well, then why aren't the areas requiring masks for penalty of fines/imprisonment, also enforcing via fines/imprisonment, the proper wearing/handling of a facemask? We are supposed to believe that these masks are the savior to the world, so much so that idiots are mandating people wear them or go to prison. Yet, they are not mandating people wear them properly. Why? How many stores have you walked into with people wearing masks sitting below their nose, or hanging off their ear? Even Latoya the Destroya was using her mask to wipe sweat off her face. Why is she not in prison per her current rulings?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:57 am to BugAC
Just a bump because there are still people who don't understand the flawed logic of mandating the wearing a mask.
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 9:57 am
Posted on 7/1/20 at 1:44 pm to BugAC
BUMP!!!!
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