re: Rain in Iran Turns Hormuz Island Blood Red....

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As soon as you can demonstrate a Christian understanding of the Christian religion, you can start questioning my sincerity

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Or you can demonstrate coherence and discontinue hypocrisy.

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You are blinded and heading to Hell

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Hey Narax, I found the hate you were accusing me of this morning.

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Believe in my mythical work of fiction or face eternal torment.

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You're totally free not to believe. That's on you. My question is, why are you so interested in something you claim you don't believe? Why do you feel the need to be contentious with people who do believe?

I think Scientology is a crock, but guess what? I SIMPLY IGNORE IT.

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You cherry-pick passages from the Bible and reject anything that doesn't conform to your weird and anti-Christian understanding of the Christian religion.

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I’m just convinced by the historical and archaeological evidence demonstrated through modern scholarship. Totally “weird”.

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You act as if your understanding of the Bible is true over and against 2,000 years of very smart Christians who have spent sincere time studying it. You lack sincerity,

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Says the guy who claims to reject church tradition, prioritizing “sola scriptura”, based on scriptures declared and enforced as authoritative based on dogmas and traditions of the guys in charge.

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Paul taught that Jesus was killed in heaven by spiritual powers and did not have an earthly ministry

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This is your hypocrisy on display. Paul literally wrote that Jesus was killed by the spiritual powers in heaven, and made no mention of any earthly actions by Jesus even though he wrote a great deal about Jesus.

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When you are pressed, your incoherent conspiracies fall apart, but you just ignore that and keep repeating it over and over again.

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That’s you. You can’t handle the simple staff and sandals contradiction. You can handle the weightier contradictions like how Paul says there is no use for the law and the law can’t save, while Matthew writes all Christians are under the law and that it is necessary for salvation. This is basic stuff you would learn at any seminary. You’re the one inventing the conspiracy theories and picking cherries.

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I'm not reveling in your destruction, but hoping you turn away from your sins and receive forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ.

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I think you’re gleeful that I’m going to be put in my place when I die. Good thing you are full of shite.

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I'm not trying to change your mind about God simply as an academic activity, or as a challenge, or because I want you to feel rudderless without your worldview. I want you to be saved.

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You would definitely take the blue pill, Foo. You’d rather believe in a false reality. You’re smart enough to “open your eyes” but you’d rather believe blind.

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I’m just convinced by the historical and archaeological evidence demonstrated through modern scholarship. Totally “weird”.

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”Scholarship” that denies fundamental truths about the Bible and interprets it according to materialistic humanism. It rejects the claims of the Bible outright because it presupposes that the Bible cannot be true. It’s what you do.

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Says the guy who claims to reject church tradition, prioritizing “sola scriptura”, based on scriptures declared and enforced as authoritative based on dogmas and traditions of the guys in charge.

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You don’t even know what happened in church history. You take the side of anyone that best supports your rejection of the truth. The church did not decide the canon, but received it. Sola scriptura is based on the Scriptures, themselves, and is a standard supported by several patristics. Of course that wouldn’t make sense to you, sense you don’t believe the Bible is authoritative in any sense.

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This is your hypocrisy on display. Paul literally wrote that Jesus was killed by the spiritual powers in heaven, and made no mention of any earthly actions by Jesus even though he wrote a great deal about Jesus.

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It isn’t hypocrisy to point out your lies. Before it was deleted by the mods, I provided a thorough rebuttal of your twisted view. Paul referenced Jesus’ earthly ministry several times. He also acknowledges that the so-called gods were not gods by nature (Gal 4:8). You’ve read too much Michael Heiser and too little of.. well.. most of every other Christian throughout church history.

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That’s you. You can’t handle the simple staff and sandals contradiction. You can handle the weightier contradictions like how Paul says there is no use for the law and the law can’t save, while Matthew writes all Christians are under the law and that it is necessary for salvation. This is basic stuff you would learn at any seminary. You’re the one inventing the conspiracy theories and picking cherries

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There is no staff and sandals contradiction. There is no contradiction about the law. You reject the truth because you want there to be contradictions. You need there to be. This is basic stuff they teach in seminary.

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I think you’re gleeful that I’m going to be put in my place when I die. Good thing you are full of shite

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If I ever found out that you died in your unbelief, I would weep for you. I don’t want anyone to suffer like you will if you do not embrace Jesus Christ.

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You would definitely take the blue pill, Foo. You’d rather believe in a false reality. You’re smart enough to “open your eyes” but you’d rather believe blind.

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You are the one who is willfully blind. You reject the truth because you have no eyes to see it.

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”Scholarship” that denies fundamental truths about the Bible and interprets it according to materialistic humanism.

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No, Foo, it’s mainstream scholarship that looks at historical/archaeological evidence, scientific evidence, and textual criticism, plus the context of their culture and the surrounding cultures and literature. It’s mainstream. Everyone knows there was never an Adam and Eve, never a global flood, and that the earth isn’t a flat disc with a dome on top holding back a sky ocean. You’re the weird one.

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It rejects the claims of the Bible outright because it presupposes that the Bible cannot be true

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You don’t understand, or you don’t want to understand the evidence. Modern mainstream biblical scholarship doesn’t presuppose the Bible cannot be true. It’s plainly obvious - no presupposition required. It’s evidence-based.

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The church did not decide the canon, but received it.

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I get that you attempt to impose that dogma onto the Bible, but your position is laughable and contrary to the evidence. Still to this day there is not one “the” canon. You have chosen to accept the Martin Luther canon based on the traditions you were taught. At any rate, the canons are authoritative collections of scriptures that were agreed on as authoritative by groups of humans and then had to be enforced by those groups of humans. There were many debates and councils and writings of church fathers for and against many scriptures including 1 Enoch, Jude, James, the pastorals, Revelation, and others (including arguments from 1800 years ago that some of those were fake and forgeries). Irenaeus even had to argue that there should be four gospels- because there are four cardinal directions and four winds- duh! I know you are aware of these things, so just think about them and let your brain process them. I know the facts hurt your feelings - get over it.

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Paul referenced Jesus’ earthly ministry several times.

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Nope, never happened, and I refuted your “refutations”. I’m air quoting that because they were very flawed arguments on your part with no evidence.

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He also acknowledges that the so-called gods were not gods by nature (Gal 4:8).

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It’s name game and semantics. The title “Theos” or “Theon” or “theois” became honorific titles for the “good” deities. The “bad” deities were given the name powers, principalities, archons/rulers, and daemons. The last one I mentioned - daemons - just were another name for a deity in Koine Greek, and is related to the word “divinity”. It’s like someone saying a Honda Ridgeline is not a truck, or the Saints aren’t a real football team. It’s an insult in Paul’s mind to say that those “bad” divinities were not “theois”. Regardless of what he called them, read Ephesians 6:12 if you want to understand what those who were not “theois” were capable of.

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You’ve read too much Michael Heiser

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Funny that you are shitting on a well respected Christian scholar who is much more educated and likely more intelligent than you. I liked the guy.

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There is no staff and sandals contradiction

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Yes, there is.

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There is no contradiction about the law.

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Of course there is. It takes a special kind of someone to know what the scriptures literally state and to disagree. You’re special, Foo. Like short bus special.

ETA: Merry Xmas

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No, Foo, it’s mainstream scholarship that looks at historical/archaeological evidence, scientific evidence, and textual criticism, plus the context of their culture and the surrounding cultures and literature. It’s mainstream. Everyone knows there was never an Adam and Eve, never a global flood, and that the earth isn’t a flat disc with a dome on top holding back a sky ocean. You’re the weird one.

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Why did you start with “no” and then go on to repeat what I already said? Modern scholarship starts with the assumption the Bible is not true and then, not surprisingly, ends up with that conclusion when interpreting evidence with those lenses. Presuppositions matter.

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You don’t understand, or you don’t want to understand the evidence. Modern mainstream biblical scholarship doesn’t presuppose the Bible cannot be true. It’s plainly obvious - no presupposition required. It’s evidence-based.

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Evidence always requires interpretation. That’s why presuppositions matter. They direct how evidence is interpreted. If you start with the assumption that miracles are impossible, you will never interpret any evidence of miracles in a way that supports miracles. You will always be looking for some other explanation, because “miracles are impossible”.

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I get that you attempt to impose that dogma onto the Bible, but your position is laughable and contrary to the evidence. Still to this day there is not one “the” canon. You have chosen to accept the Martin Luther canon based on the traditions you were taught. At any rate, the canons are authoritative collections of scriptures that were agreed on as authoritative by groups of humans and then had to be enforced by those groups of humans. There were many debates and councils and writings of church fathers for and against many scriptures including 1 Enoch, Jude, James, the pastorals, Revelation, and others (including arguments from 1800 years ago that some of those were fake and forgeries). Irenaeus even had to argue that there should be four gospels- because there are four cardinal directions and four winds- duh! I know you are aware of these things, so just think about them and let your brain process them. I know the facts hurt your feelings - get over it.

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Wrong. The canon is what God had provided as revelation through human authorship. The canon is whatever books God provided to the Church. The Church didn’t create the canon, but received it, and rejected that which was not canon, at least initially. Rome added books later on that were rejected by the Jews like Josephus, and Christians like Jerome. It also matters that the Church recognized Scripture that was authoritative as from God, and that which not authoritative but helpful to the Church. Rome mixed up these categories and added both kinds to the canon, erroneously. That’s factual, as it is historical.

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Nope, never happened, and I refuted your “refutations”. I’m air quoting that because they were very flawed arguments on your part with no evidence.

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He did, and you didn’t.

It seems like you are equivocating on the word “evidence” here, which further proves you don’t know what you’re talking about with any of it. When I provide quotes from Paul, you say it isn’t evidence. Well that shows that you don’t know what evidence is, and it proves my point about evidence needing to be interpreted, since you interpret the evidence differently based on your presupposition that Paul had a different understanding about Jesus than the gospel writers, or Peter and John, even though Peter agreed with Paul’s writings enough to call them “scripture”.

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It’s name game and semantics. The title “Theos” or “Theon” or “theois” became honorific titles for the “good” deities. The “bad” deities were given the name powers, principalities, archons/rulers, and daemons. The last one I mentioned - daemons - just were another name for a deity in Koine Greek, and is related to the word “divinity”. It’s like someone saying a Honda Ridgeline is not a truck, or the Saints aren’t a real football team. It’s an insult in Paul’s mind to say that those “bad” divinities were not “theois”. Regardless of what he called them, read Ephesians 6:12 if you want to understand what those who were not “theois” were capable of.

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Angels and demons (fallen angels) are biblically recognized beings. What are not recognized is other “gods” that have superior, equal, or near-equal power and authority as God, as you keep stating, as I’ve shown time and time again. Paul is talking about the nature of gods not being gods, as Galatians 4 indicates. He even goes on to say in verse 9 that those elementary principles (demons) that you referenced in Ephesians 6 are weak and worthless. Why? Because they are created beings, and Christ is the Son of God. He has all authority and power and those spiritual beings—including Satan, “the evil one”—can be resisted through the Spirit of Christ.

As usual, you cherry pick words here and there and ignore the full context of what is written in the Bible. This further shows the presuppositional aspect of evidential interpretation.

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Funny that you are shitting on a well respected Christian scholar who is much more educated and likely more intelligent than you. I liked the guy.

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He constructed an entire worldview based on a couple of passages from the Old Testament interpreted out of context, but interpreted them in light of non-canonical writings like 1 Enoch. He developed a way of reading the Bible that mythologized it by looking at ancient near eastern texts, believing aspects of them as true, and importing them into the Bible to interpret the Bible, rather than having the Bible interpret itself, which has been the traditional Christian approach based on how the Bible speaks of itself.

I know plenty about Heiser and his false teachings. I, unfortunately, heard all about it for years, having sat under one of his disciples, having the divine council preached to me in Sunday school classes and sermons, even reviewed a book on the subject, and provided feedback to its author before publication.

This further highlights my point about presuppositions. When you claim that the Bible is just one of many ANE texts that has truth in it, you will interpret the Bible according to those texts, rather than interpreting the Bible according to the Bible as the only divinely inspired text.

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Yes, there is.

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There isn’t.

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Of course there is. It takes a special kind of someone to know what the scriptures literally state and to disagree. You’re special, Foo. Like short bus special.

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There isn’t. The law is required to be kept as part of the Covenant of Works. All mankind is under this covenant initially. Jesus fulfilled the covenant and brought about salvation through the Covenant of Grace, whereby we receive salvation by believing in Jesus’ obedience on our behalf.

Christians cannot keep the law to save us but we are to obey the moral law out of thanksgiving to the God who saved us from the law.

There is no contradiction. You just always read the Bible with your skeptic glasses on and ignore what it really says.

Barely interesting geology story, but ok.

You would deny it if you saw it with your own eyes that's how lost some people are and will stay lost. It is all part of GOD'S plan, and you're free to not believe..But i would say to you and your kind, you better believe what you see

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Why are you arguing with me so much? If I follow the teachings in the bible, I consider that I've lived a good life. Perhaps you don't consider that to be true and I'm fine with you having your opinion on the matter. My point is that if I follow the teachings of the bible I will have lived what I consider a good life. I will have missed out on a LOT of debauchery, deviant sex activities, etc. Worse case I'm wrong (which could be true. I don't believe it to be true, though) but I still lived what I consider a good life. If others are wrong (and therefore I'm right), they may have enjoyed their version of a good life, but they will pay for it in H3LL. If what I've been taught and believe is true.

Of course it is about avoiding hell. Just like I follow the speeding laws, not because I want to drive slow, get there late or be safe really but because I want to avoid paying a speeding ticket.

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I have used this in the past. If the Bible is just a work of fiction and not true, then why does it bother those people who do not believe when others say they do? If it is all just fiction, then when we die, we all die and there is nothing left.. the joke is on the believers.. BUT.. If the Bible is true (which I 100% believe it is) then the "joke' is on the non believers. Being a believer has not hurt me in my life in anyway IMO.

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Everyone has presuppositions that are baked into their worldviews. I’m honest about mine. You act as if you and every scholar are neutral

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No, Foo. Presuppositions can lead to hypotheses. Then the research starts. Whatever comes from that research - whatever shows to be true - despite original suppositions- is what a scholar is going to believe based on the overwhelming preponderance of evidence.

Quit projecting your faults onto others.