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re: Question for judges and attorneys...Where does your morality (if any) come into play ?

Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:21 pm to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466921 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:21 pm to
quote:

The purpose of a criminal lawyer is to try to let them back on the streets. Even though that lawyer actually knows that crime actually happened. A murder, rape, etc... they don't give a shite.

You're talking about Trump's attorneys, right?
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
84558 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:22 pm to
The purpose of a criminal defense lawyer is to ensure the integrity of the system by making sure the government plays by the same set of rules for all accused- both the guilty and the innocent.
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
84558 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:22 pm to
checkmate
Posted by Gifman
Member since Jan 2021
17570 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:23 pm to
You spend every moment on TD. I’m not convinced you’re representing shite.
Posted by chili pup
Member since Sep 2011
3697 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

You're talking about Trump's attorneys, right?


Remember!

No lawfare with your post.

You are caught putting the cart before the horse.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 7:26 pm
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170709 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:25 pm to
quote:


Huh?

Whatever you tell yourself to let you sleep at night.

Dude you sound retarded

He's being perfectly reasonable. A defense attorney is supposed to defend their client. Not gift the prosecution an easy win because the defendant may have done something bad.
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
19375 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:26 pm to
Morality, laws, and ethics are not the same thing and aren't necessarily linked.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466921 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:27 pm to
quote:

Remember!

No lawfare with your post.

Lawfare? Why are changing the discussion?

quote:

You are caught putting the cart before the horse.

No. Just exposing internal biases masquerading as objectivity
Posted by loogaroo
Welsh
Member since Dec 2005
39754 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:29 pm to
quote:


I have no idea what you think you just proved. Nothing I said was controversial or should evoke any such emotions


There is your problem. You use your profession as an excuse to ignore morality. Or or you have no morality or moral compass. You seem to perceive life only through the letter of the law. That is a lazy empty way to go through life.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466921 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:31 pm to
quote:

You use your profession as an excuse to ignore morality.

I believe in morality in my personal life.

I also understand morality and the law are 2 very different and separate things.

Again, you did not prove what you think you did.

quote:

Or or you have no morality or moral compass.




quote:

You seem to perceive life only through the letter of the law.

No I spoke only of the profession of the law being perceived through the letter of the law.

Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170709 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

You use your profession as an excuse to ignore morality.

The more likely reality: you aren't very smart
Posted by loogaroo
Welsh
Member since Dec 2005
39754 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

Dude you sound retarded

He's being perfectly reasonable. A defense attorney is supposed to defend their client. Not gift the prosecution an easy win because the defendant may have done something bad.


Look...Another one that lacks a moral compass.

Has honor and human decency left you sir?
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
84558 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:32 pm to
How do you apply your individual morality to a macro system with thousands of moving parts, inputs, outputs, and varying factual scenarios?

Much less SFP’s or mine or anyone else’s?

Your question lies on a faulty premise.
Posted by loogaroo
Welsh
Member since Dec 2005
39754 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:33 pm to
quote:

I also understand morality and the law are 2 very different and separate things.


Why?
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170709 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:35 pm to
quote:


Look...Another one that lacks a moral compass.

Has honor and human decency left you sir?

Let's throw out a hypothetical

You're a defense attorney and you "think" that your client is guilty but you don't know for sure. What do you do in that case?
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170709 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:35 pm to
quote:


Why?

Morality is subjective based on cultural traditions
Posted by chili pup
Member since Sep 2011
3697 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:35 pm to
quote:


No. Just exposing internal biases masquerading as objectivity



Tell me you have no common sense without telling me you have no common sense.
Posted by loogaroo
Welsh
Member since Dec 2005
39754 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:36 pm to
quote:

How do you apply your individual morality to a macro system with thousands of moving parts, inputs, outputs, and varying factual scenarios?


Don't choose the easy way out and use your profession as an excuse to ignore it.

Basically...have some balls.
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
16990 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:36 pm to
quote:

I know this. I guess the better question is: Can you knowingly defend a guilty criminal because it's "your profession"?


Yes I could knowingly defend a guilty criminal. Most accused criminals did the thing they’re accused of doing.

I don’t do criminal defense work, bc I don’t want to have to hang out with violent scary gross people. It would scare me and make me squeamish and I’d be scared to be in the same room as my own client. So, I probably would be conflicted. Meaning, I’m concerned that I would be too emotionally put off to provide the zealous defense my client, and the rest of us need to be able to depend on an atty’s ability to do that bc the rest of us would just get rickrolled.

I wish I were less of a ninny, but I know myself. I’m scared of raccoons and possums in my attic, you think I wouldn’t be petrified of some gangbanger??

I could do white collar criminal defense, however. Usually nobody is raped or dead, and the defendant is usually a dirtbag. Even if my client were a dirtbag, he deserves a defense. And some of those rules are disproportionately enforced against smaller businesses when companies that are really corrupt aren’t ever charged with anything.

For example: I’d have been willing to represent the Exxon Valdez Captain, but not Exxon. BC Exxon and the DOJ/EPA would be looking for a freaking scapegoat.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
36005 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 7:36 pm to
Let me ask you this:
Would it be better and more just for society if we as a society just lay down for the state and grant them wide sanction? Should it be better for all involved though if we make the state periodically work for it, prove in a public setting the guilt beyond a reasonable doubt with the accused giving a full throated defense?

So many criminal proceedings though are nothing more than process. Bring a defendant in, present the charges, lay out what the state has and the DA offers a deal for expediency.
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