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re: Principal to suspend students that speak positively about ICE.

Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:11 pm to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466156 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

Since you are referencing bullying, perhaps you should bring to light the District handbook regarding definitions and consequences.

Literally your burden

New York's definition would apply

quote:

Dignity Act Statutory and Regulatory Definition (pg. 53). Harassment and bullying means the creation
of a hostile environment by conduct or by threats, intimidation, or abuse, including cyberbullying, that
has or would have the effect of unreasonably and substantially interfering with a student’s educational
performance, opportunities or benefits, or mental, emotional, or physical well-being; or reasonably
causes or would reasonably be expected to cause a student to fear for his or her physical safety; or
reasonably causes or would reasonably be expected to cause physical injury or emotional harm to a
student; or occurs off school property and creates or would foreseeably create a risk of substantial
disruption within the school environment, where it is foreseeable that the conduct, threats,
intimidation or abuse might reach school property. Acts of harassment and bullying shall include, but
not be limited to, those acts based on a person’s actual or perceived race, color, weight, national
origin, ethnic group, religion, religious practice, disability, sexual orientation, gender or sex. For the
purposes of this definition the term “threats, intimidation or abuse” shall include verbal and nonverbal actions. (Education Law §11[7]).


It also fits the state definition of MN

quote:

Bullying means intimidating, threatening,
abusive or harming conduct that is objectively
offensive and:
1) there is an actual or perceived imbalance of
power…
2) the conduct is repeated or forms a pattern,
or
3) materially and substantially interferes with a
student’s educational opportunities or
performance or ability to participate…


quote:

Intimidating, threatening, abusive or harming
conduct are actions and behavior which:
Cause physical harm to a student or a
student’s property
Cause reasonable fear of harm
Violate reasonable expectation of privacy
Defame a student
Cause emotional distress


3 requires no group or pattern and the letter in OP seems to specifically over that and the "emotional distress" referenced.

Oh, and,

quote:

Defining Bullying:
“Protected Classes”


quote:

“This includes conduct targeted at a
victim based upon perceived or
actual status (with regard to the
protected classes).”


It may be mandated on this principal to address targeting of this protected class (minority students)
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
17169 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:14 pm to
It stresses making light of immigration threats, that is not bullying which undercuts your premises.

Threats of punishment threatened through discipline policy is a threat of students ability to make light of the situation.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466156 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

It stresses making light of immigration threats, that is not bullying

It can be, per the various definitions.

I've posted a few
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112559 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

Kid shows up to school Monday wearing a shirt that says:

quote:
I support

Implementing
Calculus
Energetically

Addition by Subtraction



What happens to that kid?

ETA: This was posted at 10:22 a.m. and the resident "contrarians" - whose response time for other posts in this thread is under 5 minutes - have been remarkably quiet regarding this one.

ETA: 3:00 PM... still waiting



Maybe now I'll get a response....

ETA: 4 more hours, and crickets .

Curious.
This post was edited on 12/14/25 at 7:56 pm
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
42147 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

It may be mandated on this principal to address targeting of this protected class (minority students)


*alleged targeting

I would assume that proof be required.

1 and 2 are pretty much what I noted.

As for 3,
quote:

Cause emotional distress
being the sole source of a suspension…could it be any more arbitrary and subjective? So this principal wants to suspend one student based on the emotional state of another student.

I predict that he will abuse the circumstances to arbitrarily punish students that he doesn’t like going forward.

Time will tell.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
42147 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

So if students were to promote ICE coming to their school to remove illegals…and verbally appreciate them doing their job, they should be suspended?


quote:

You're trying to create a strawman over something I did not argue in response to OP


So what I noted couldn’t cause “emotional distress?”

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466156 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

being the sole source of a suspension…could it be any more arbitrary and subjective?

As has been said about 5x at this point. It always has been for bullying, generally.

This is just a letter about a specific form of *alleged bullying.

I win, again.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466156 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:47 pm to
quote:

So what I noted couldn’t cause “emotional distress?”


My response to OP has no intersection with "emotional distress" other than being able to read and quote the actual language of the letter using those words (as opposed to the words used in OP)
This post was edited on 12/14/25 at 3:48 pm
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
42147 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:49 pm to
So my example would not cause emotional distress for the illegals, despite students promoting ICE in a positive light for doing their job?
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
42147 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

As has been said about 5x at this point. It always has been for bullying, generally.


Then why even have 1,2, and 3 three as part of their doctrine?

If it is subjective, as you say, then it is solely up to the discretion of the administration.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466156 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

So my example would not cause emotional distress for the illegals, despite students promoting ICE in a positive light for doing their job?

I in no way said that
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466156 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

Then why even have 1,2, and 3 three as part of their doctrine?

To cover all the bases.

quote:

If it is subjective, as you say, then it is solely up to the discretion of the administration.

1, 2, and 3 require subjectivity

This

quote:

Intimidating, threatening, abusive or harming
conduct are actions and behavior which:
Cause physical harm to a student or a
student’s property
Cause reasonable fear of harm
Violate reasonable expectation of privacy
Defame a student
Cause emotional distress


Applies to 1-3
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
42147 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

So my example would not cause emotional distress for the illegals, despite students promoting ICE in a positive light for doing their job?


quote:

I in no way said that


You are not the principal in question.
This post was edited on 12/14/25 at 3:57 pm
Posted by KCT
Psalm 23:5
Member since Feb 2010
46238 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

Principal to suspend students that speak positively about ICE.


I could've sworn that one of the fundamental aspects of education was the encouragement of the free expression of ideas.

I guess not.
Posted by somethingdifferent
Member since Aug 2024
1556 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

And here we see the power of dishonesty and people who don't real the primary sources
You're the LAST person on this board who should tell anyone about honesty and reading primary sources, 14th amendment expert
Posted by Motownsix
Boise
Member since Oct 2022
3125 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

That's not what the principals letter says, FWIW. It specifically references to ICE to bully students ("cause fear of humiliation" is the exact text). Nowhere in the letter does it claim to punish "speaking positively about ICE". That's pure dishonesty (or an inability to read


It’s hard to manufacture outrage with the truth. Let the sky screamers hold on to something.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
42147 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

So if students were to promote ICE coming to their school to remove illegals…and verbally appreciate them doing for their job, they should be suspended for “causing fear of humiliation” (whatever that is)?
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
17169 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 4:40 pm to
Making light is a jocular way in which you reduce another’s perspective. At worse it is condescending but bullying is a stretch even by standards you embrace under that lawyer umbrella. Kids get disciplined could work out bad for principal and insurance companies paying out
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
466156 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 4:41 pm to
quote:

Kids get disciplined could work out bad for principal and insurance companies paying out


How many times have kids accused of bullying won one of these lawsuits?
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
74155 posts
Posted on 12/14/25 at 4:44 pm to
How many cases of bullying were based on free speech.
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