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re: PoliBoard: Teach me why a flat tax is bad.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:19 pm to 50_Tiger
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:19 pm to 50_Tiger
Flat taxes result in regressive spending powers. For example, let's use the 10% flat tax for all. Use one individual who makes $25,000 and one who makes $250,000. The lower income is taxed at $2,500 and the higher is taxed at $25,000 leaving remaining income of $22,500 and $225,000. Is the ability to pay for stuff with $225,000 really any different than the $250,000? That person's spending power didn't really change at all. However, the lower income may miss a months rent or struggle to put food on the table without that $2,500. A flat tax hurts those at the bottom significantly more than those at the top.
3
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:20 pm to kingbob
quote:
No seriously, that is the problem for any income taxing regime. Because income is such a nebulous term that is difficult to quantify and track that it makes income taxes extremely time intensive to pay and labor intensive to enforce. That's why sales taxes and property taxes are both superior. Sales are automatic every time you buy something. Property is based off of a predictable assessment. Income is nebulous and vague, causing many people who are acting in good faith to get caught in the dragnet and become criminals simply by not realizing that x should have been counted with y at z date instead of w date.
I appreciate the explanation. Now it makes sense.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:21 pm to Dixie Normus
quote:
Flat taxes result in regressive spending powers. For example, let's use the 10% flat tax for all. Use one individual who makes $25,000 and one who makes $250,000. The lower income is taxed at $2,500 and the higher is taxed at $25,000 leaving remaining income of $22,500 and $225,000. Is the ability to pay for stuff with $225,000 really any different than the $250,000? That person's spending power didn't really change at all. However, the lower income may miss a months rent or struggle to put food on the table without that $2,500. A flat tax hurts those at the bottom significantly more than those at the top.
The $22,500 persons "usage" in the entitlement program industry is significantly higher.
LINK (tax info)
What I am implying is that this person winds up taking wayyyyyy more than they put in the Government. This is considered their "benefit."
This post was edited on 6/20/17 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:27 pm to Dixie Normus
quote:
However, the lower income may miss a months rent or struggle to put food on the table without that $2,500.
This is such an abused argument. The $25,000 earner would need to live within their means and that would be $22,500/yr. As a society we should embrace the notion of living on what you can afford and that goes for people making $150,000/yr as well.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:39 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
This is such an abused argument. The $25,000 earner would need to live within their means and that would be $22,500/yr. As a society we should embrace the notion of living on what you can afford and that goes for people making $150,000/yr as well.
I actually agree with this.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:51 pm to Dixie Normus
quote:
Is the ability to pay for stuff with $225,000 really any different than the $250,000?
Don't care. You're trying to justify the disparity in taxation between the two by using emotion.
Person B is already taxed $22,500 more than Person A in your scenario, and you want them taxed more for no other reason than being more successful. The only reasoning you can come up with is "but they'll literally be homeless and starve" if they have to contribute proportionally.
It's insanity. Next, you'll tell us how they'll literally die in the streets due to lack of health insurance if we don't subsidize it.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:54 pm to bayouboo
quote:
We really need a consumption tax
Yes.
quote:
backed by a smaller flat tax.
No. It will not stay smaller.
quote:
Exemptions for basic goods should be included.
No. Government will continue to pick winners and losers. K Street will continue to run D.C.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:59 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
Flat tax is an improvement.
FairTax is better.
Completely disagree.
Fair Tax creates the single largest redistribution of wealth in American history.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:59 pm to 50_Tiger
The argument against a flat tax is easy. The more income you earn, the less marginal utility it provides you. Obviously that's a little dumbed down, but that's essentially the argument made. I personally don't agree with it, but I can see how politicians telling the person with two kids making 33k a year they'll tax people making 500,000 a year at a higher rate gets them votes.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:02 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
This leave a generated revenue stream of 19.2Tr dollars. At a ten percent flat tax, this would leave an individual income tax revenue of 1.92Tr dollars.
Your percentage is too low. Ideally, it's 17% on every dollar after $30,000.
quote:
Here is a graphical breakdown of FY2015 where the federal budget cost 3.8Tr.
Federal revenue was only 3.25 T in 2015
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:02 pm to Breesus
quote:
quote:flat tax Both racist and disproportionately unfair to the poor. Bottom line only the wealthiest 1% should pay anything and everyone else should just get free stuff.
I guess 3 people have broken sarcasm meters.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:05 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Your percentage is too low. Ideally, it's 17% on every dollar after $30,000.
So you want the first 30k tax free? Are we ending some entitlement programs with this approach? A married couple will have their first 60k tax free???
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:06 pm to 50_Tiger
Who will get a refund on their taxes and % of how much?
Lower the income paid in the smaller the amount that could be refunded. The more paid in the lager the refund.
Just like how Trump was able to take a loss and not pay taxes for years. The rest of us pay taxes and probably pay in without a refund.
No matter what the tax rate wealthy people can afford the best CPA's and tax lawyers. This continues to leave the tax burden on the middle class.
The response is always, but they provide jobs. They also make money and are able to get around tax laws.
The highest % of Trump voters would not see any change in taxes owed or new jobs.
Any new tax bill will still leave the burden on the middle class. It doesn't matter if it is flat or not.
Lower the income paid in the smaller the amount that could be refunded. The more paid in the lager the refund.
Just like how Trump was able to take a loss and not pay taxes for years. The rest of us pay taxes and probably pay in without a refund.
No matter what the tax rate wealthy people can afford the best CPA's and tax lawyers. This continues to leave the tax burden on the middle class.
The response is always, but they provide jobs. They also make money and are able to get around tax laws.
The highest % of Trump voters would not see any change in taxes owed or new jobs.
Any new tax bill will still leave the burden on the middle class. It doesn't matter if it is flat or not.
This post was edited on 6/20/17 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:06 pm to GurleyGirl
quote:
I guess 3 people have broken sarcasm meters.
I'd venture to guess more than likely it's three of our resident proggy statists who know very well he's being sarcastic, but they truly believe it.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:08 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
Who will get a refund on their taxes and % of how much?
Huh? We're talking a flat tax.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:09 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
Who will get a refund on their taxes and % of how much
Everyone pays 10%
EITC would be eliminated.
I would still allow things such as property taxes and student loan interest to be deducted. People buying homes and going to school is a GOOD thing. Rewarding people for banging too much and making no money is BAD. In my opinion of course.
However we can also just axe everything and every April everyone forks over 10% of their FY income.
This post was edited on 6/20/17 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:10 pm to Centinel
Like I said at the bottom of my post it doesn't matter if it is a flat tax or not. The burden will still be on the middle class.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:11 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
The burden will still be on the middle class.
Why?
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:12 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
So you want the first 30k tax free?
Yes, I thought that was clear.
quote:
Are we ending some entitlement programs with this approach?
We would have a steadier source of federal revenue to which spending could adjust. There would also be no credits or deductions.
quote:
A married couple will have their first 60k tax free???
Yes.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 1:13 pm to MizzouBS
quote:
The burden will still be on the middle class.
Obviously
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