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Message
re: Paradigm Shift In American Politics
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:21 am to TigersInParis
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:21 am to TigersInParis
quote:
Republicans are still the party of big brother, don't you worry!
Only democrats use surveillance against political parties though.
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 6:24 am
1
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:22 am to i am dan
quote:
don't care about American global leadership. What has that gotten us? Wars, dead soldiers, massive debt, a surveillance state and a world who expect our money on one hand and burn our flag with the other.
Very well said
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:23 am to TigerDoc
quote:
and probably won't outlive the current administration.
i don't think the voting bloc that Trump showed exists is going to shift that dramatically where the GOP just gives up on key issues
from a meta level, one major issue with the DEMs losing their collective minds over Trump is that they're blowing their entire load. if pretty much any other person runs with a similar political platform (Without the personal baggage), the DEMs have no credibility in this sort of biased attack. Mitt Romney was probably the last guy the DEMs and their coordinated effectively character assassinate for a while
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:26 am to SCLibertarian
In my opinion, the Bush Republicans are going extinct. I have a lot of sympathy for libertarian positions implemented in domestic policy.
Open borders, outsourcing, and mass immigration is where I draw that line.
Open borders, outsourcing, and mass immigration is where I draw that line.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:30 am to Boatshoes
quote:
Open borders, outsourcing, and mass immigration is where I draw that line.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 7:28 am to SlowFlowPro
Factory in manila is what is thought of as outsourcing.
We are still in wto.
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 7:30 am
Posted on 1/19/18 at 7:31 am to Toddy
quote:
Toddy
^^^ why dems keep losing
Posted on 1/19/18 at 7:51 am to SCLibertarian
I have a question or two for you.
Obviously, government abuses of power we give them can and do happen all the time, but there are rules in the FISA authorization that says US citizens cannot be the target of the search, whether on US soil, or foreign soil, correct?
Second, would you be fine with doing without the intelligence that abolishing this authorization would create, and how many terrorist actions on US soil that may have been prevented with this intelligence available, would make you reconsider authorization?
Third, is there any other way to get this information on foreign actors, if not this way?
Obviously, government abuses of power we give them can and do happen all the time, but there are rules in the FISA authorization that says US citizens cannot be the target of the search, whether on US soil, or foreign soil, correct?
Second, would you be fine with doing without the intelligence that abolishing this authorization would create, and how many terrorist actions on US soil that may have been prevented with this intelligence available, would make you reconsider authorization?
Third, is there any other way to get this information on foreign actors, if not this way?
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 7:53 am
Posted on 1/19/18 at 7:58 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The message is that most people lack foundational political principles, it's simply a team sport and your team winning is the endgame.
This. Democratic (small d) politics is basically a rhetorical struggle, not a principled one. That we have massive drives to encourage EVERYONE to vote, when anyone with a modicum of common sense knows not everyone is informed nor politically principled enough to make an educated choice, highlights one of the most significant flaws in universal democracy. This makes the system ripe for rhetorical grandstanding.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:02 am to i am dan
quote:
If a dictator is slaughtering his people by the thousands, should we step in?
Sure. But let the other countries take there turn first. We had the last one, so we get to sit back and let the 200+ have their shot.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:03 am to Toddy
quote:
Global U.S. Leadership Approval
There it is folks
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:11 am to Toddy
quote:
Meanwhile, Global U.S. Leadership Approval is plummeting and we've been replaced by Germany and China. United States comes in third now. China !
You do realize why America was founded dont you?
Member when your party use to take pride in being educated?
Now the only pride your party has are peter puffers
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:16 am to troyt37
quote:
Obviously, government abuses of power we give them can and do happen all the time, but there are rules in the FISA authorization that says US citizens cannot be the target of the search, whether on US soil, or foreign soil, correct?
If I'm talking to someone outside of the country, that person could be the "target" when in reality it's my communications they want. There's nothing that protects me in that situation if they want to target me. Even still, they're collecting all your data. No government should be able to do this, simply because of the potential for abuse.
quote:
Second, would you be fine with doing without the intelligence that abolishing this authorization would create, and how many terrorist actions on US soil that may have been prevented with this intelligence available, would make you reconsider authorization?
I don't think these kinds of laws prevent terrorist attacks. They didn't prevent Boston, they didn't prevent Las Vegas and they didn't prevent the latest NYC terror attack. The only proof we have that these laws prevent attacks are uncorroborated statements (info is classified of course) from politicians, bureaucrats or people who have a vested interest in the perpetuation of the MIC.
But even if there was some magical proof that terrorists could be stopped, I still would oppose laws that allow for warrantless domestic surveillance of Americans. The Bill of Rights used to mean something. Now we're afraid of any and every boogeyman and willing to throw away our liberties because of it. Our anthem says we're the land of the brave. Act like it.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:20 am to i am dan
quote:
Only democrats use surveillance against political parties though.
You tell yourself whatever you need to to keep fighting off that cognitive dissonance, bud!
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:23 am to SCLibertarian
There is no moral core or center to either the R or D parties. They change opinions like leaves in the wind. That's why I like the Libertarians so much. Whether you agree with them or not, they are morally consistent over time. The core principal being the individual over the state.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
how is advocating for not being the "leader of the world" an argument for "isolationism"?
We can be the leader of the world. That's fine. Being the world police sucks though.
Also, we have to buy our friends. Those really aren't friends.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:43 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
I don't care about American global leadership. What has that gotten us?
That doesn't speak against American global leadership as a concept, it speaks to the people and policies doing that leading. If we don't lead, someone will fill that gap and that someone is going to be China, Russia or some other power base that stands for oppressing it's own people and sees the rest of the world as something they can own. Like it or not, that is game.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 8:44 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
Conversely, the Republicans would have called anyone opposing these measures terrorist sympathizers.
Honestly, the Rs on this board were less that 50/50 on Patriot act by the time the board was made
Posted on 1/19/18 at 9:00 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
15 years ago, the Democrats on this board would have been opposed to the Patriot Act, FISA and all other forms of warrantless, domestic surveillance. Conversely, the Republicans would have called anyone opposing these measures terrorist sympathizers.
Dims have realized that they need mass government surveillance to fully implement their regressive ideology.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 9:06 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
If I'm talking to someone outside of the country, that person could be the "target" when in reality it's my communications they want. There's nothing that protects me in that situation if they want to target me.
You mean, other than the fact that you aren't a criminal or a terrorist, and wouldn't be talking to that person outside of the country about criminal or terrorist activity, correct? What protections do you need to talk to your uncle about grandma's bunions, and your cousin's upcoming wedding?
I agree that our Constitution and Bill of Rights are being trampled on with sickening regularity, but if it's going to happen, it's better that it's in the effort to prevent terrorists from using those very freedoms to kill Americans, isn't it? I mean, liberals shite on the 2A with impunity, just because they want to.
quote:
I don't think these kinds of laws prevent terrorist attacks. They didn't prevent Boston, they didn't prevent Las Vegas and they didn't prevent the latest NYC terror attack.
That certainly isn't a fair assessment, is it? Is there any proof there were foreign actors on foreign soil involved in these? Couldn't the case just as easily be that the safeguards in place, preventing surveillance of US citizens in certain situations, have prevented the gathering of intelligence that would have prevented them? Couldn't it have been the case that there was simply no intelligence to be gathered in that way?
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 9:08 am
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