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Started By
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Paradigm Shift In American Politics
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:16 pm
15 years ago, the Democrats on this board would have been opposed to the Patriot Act, FISA and all other forms of warrantless, domestic surveillance. Conversely, the Republicans would have called anyone opposing these measures terrorist sympathizers.
Today, the biggest opponents of domestic surveillance are the proteges of the Ron Paul wing of the Republican Party: Rand Paul and Justin Amash. Meanwhile, the very same Democratic leaders who call Trump a Nazi and a dictator (Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff) sure don't mind giving the "madman" and his administration near unlimited spy powers.
Have the Ron Paul campaigns of 2008 and 2012 fundamentally changed a large percentage of the Republican Party's policy position? Similarly, will Trump Derangement Syndrome cause the Democratic Party to eventually become the party of neocons and national security hawks?
Today, the biggest opponents of domestic surveillance are the proteges of the Ron Paul wing of the Republican Party: Rand Paul and Justin Amash. Meanwhile, the very same Democratic leaders who call Trump a Nazi and a dictator (Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff) sure don't mind giving the "madman" and his administration near unlimited spy powers.
Have the Ron Paul campaigns of 2008 and 2012 fundamentally changed a large percentage of the Republican Party's policy position? Similarly, will Trump Derangement Syndrome cause the Democratic Party to eventually become the party of neocons and national security hawks?
13
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:17 pm to SCLibertarian
New generation of republicans 
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:24 pm to SCLibertarian
I’m not a Democrat, a Republican, nor any other political hack.
I’m a Christian and a Texan, trying to live a decent life, free from government interference.
I’ll always trust my neighbors over anyone in DC.
I’m a Christian and a Texan, trying to live a decent life, free from government interference.
I’ll always trust my neighbors over anyone in DC.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:26 pm to SCLibertarian
That might play a part but I think it just goes to show that the two establishment wings of both parties want the same thing and make a show of opposing the other just to keep their half of the constituency placated.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:26 pm to SCLibertarian
The message is that most people lack foundational political principles, it's simply a team sport and your team winning is the endgame.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:29 pm to SCLibertarian
Meanwhile, Global U.S. Leadership Approval is plummeting and we've been replaced by Germany and China. United States comes in third now. China !
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:33 pm to Toddy
I don't care about American global leadership. What has that gotten us? Wars, dead soldiers, massive debt, a surveillance state and a world who expect our money on one hand and burn our flag with the other.
We owe a duty to our citizens and to no one else. Follow the Constitution, secure the liberties and fundamental rights owed to your citizens and otherwise leave us the hell alone.
We owe a duty to our citizens and to no one else. Follow the Constitution, secure the liberties and fundamental rights owed to your citizens and otherwise leave us the hell alone.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:42 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
We owe a duty to our citizens and to no one else. Follow the Constitution, secure the liberties and fundamental rights owed to your citizens and otherwise leave us the hell alone.
Has isolationism worked out well in the past?
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:47 pm to Toddy
Non-interventionism isn't isolationism. What has an interventionist foreign policy gotten America? We overthrew Mossadegh in Iran in 1953, installed the Shah as dictator and look where that got us. We funded the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan in the 1970's and 1980's and they later became the godfathers of Islamic terrorism. These are just two examples of many where our militarism has unintended consequences. The concept of blowback is real, hell even the CIA has acknowledged this.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:54 pm to SCLibertarian
I think most of this shift is expedient politics and probably won't outlive the current administration.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:56 pm to Toddy
You're pro war now ?
Posted on 1/18/18 at 11:05 pm to NIH
quote:
You're pro war now ?
He voted for Hillary, so of course he's pro-war.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 1:36 am to SCLibertarian
quote:the progressives ain't for this one bit... Bernie bros are with the Rand Paulians on this issue
Meanwhile, the very same Democratic leaders who call Trump a Nazi and a dictator (Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff) sure don't mind giving the "madman" and his administration near unlimited spy powers.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 1:41 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
Today, the biggest opponents of domestic surveillance are the proteges of the Ron Paul wing of the Republican Party: Rand Paul and Justin Amash. Meanwhile, the very same Democratic leaders who call Trump a Nazi and a dictator (Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff) sure don't mind giving the "madman" and his administration near unlimited spy powers.
Republicans overwhelmingly voted in favor of FISA, and a majority of Democrats voted against it. Yeah, that's some "paradigm shift".
quote:
Have the Ron Paul campaigns of 2008 and 2012 fundamentally changed a large percentage of the Republican Party's policy position?
Obviously not since only 7 voted against it. Republicans are still the party of big brother, don't you worry!
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:08 am to Toddy
quote:
Meanwhile, Global U.S. Leadership Approval is plummeting and we've been replaced by Germany and China. United States comes in third now. China !
Good! It shows that for the first time in the past decade our president is putting the needs of his own country above the needs of other countries.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:12 am to Toddy
quote:
Has isolationism worked out well in the past?
So you are a Soros globalists?
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:16 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
don't care about American global leadership. What has that gotten us? Wars, dead soldiers, massive debt, a surveillance state and a world who expect our money on one hand and burn our flag with the other.
Absolutely correct.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:18 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
We owe a duty to our citizens and to no one else.
Not 100% on board with this one though.
Edit: read your follow up post where you explained it better. Still not quite sure. If a dictator is slaughtering his people by the thousands, should we step in?
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 6:23 am
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:19 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
The concept of blowback is real, hell even the CIA has acknowledged this.
Presidential candidates as well.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 6:20 am to Toddy
quote:
Has isolationism worked out well in the past?
how is advocating for not being the "leader of the world" an argument for "isolationism"?
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