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re: OT Ukraine thread - you were not kidding
Posted on 3/25/23 at 4:47 am to ReeseBobby
Posted on 3/25/23 at 4:47 am to ReeseBobby
quote:
So countries such as Ukraine have no right to determine their own priorities? Also tell me which diplomat not fro Russia said this and why.
I think most are disagreeing with you because of the lack of consistency in thought process. You are correct Russia is taking back what is rightfully Mother Russias.
But you live in Texas, did not Tijanos do the same thing to Mexico? How could you justify that and disagree with Mother Russia, the irony is quite shocking. If you believe what you say you should move out of Texas, or for that matter the US since you also did that to native Americans.
2
Posted on 3/25/23 at 5:03 am to trinidadtiger
I think we should replace zelensky and put in someone to negotiate with Russia before these Ukranians lose the entire country.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 5:06 am to trinidadtiger
If we pay to rebuild Ukraine, does that come out of reparations here in the states, or the contruction costs of bi bathrooms in govt buildings, Im trying to keep up.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 6:11 am to GhostOfFreedom
quote:
I got attacked for some simple common sense logic
quote:
I am sure we are paying for the facility, metal, explosives, plus, 10% for the big man.
quote:
Why the opposition for sending Hunter Biden to Ukraine to fight? They paid him and the Biden family a LOT of money. Shouldn't they get their money's worth?
Would the crack head be more of a distraction than asset? Heck, use him for cannon fodder.
Why do you all disagree with this? Do you want your children to be sent in his replacement?
stupid mutha fukers.
quote:
evil creeping over your shoulder.
Do you feel the hair rising on the back of your neck?
Yeah, it seems to have take a deep root in your soul. You should pray.
quote:
Why should anyone go fight for the deep state? Why should anyone go fight for the world economic forum?
Why should anyone go fight for the military industrial complex and the corrupt warmongers?
Why should we support you?
Repentance would be good for you.
Lacking lots of common sense and logic, but you are free to live in your own self-constructed fantasy
Posted on 3/25/23 at 6:16 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Russia had warned for twenty-five years it could not, and would not tolerate Ukraine or Georgia ceded to NATO. Why? Because the military and economic consequences would severely impact Russian national security. Russia knew this. We knew this. Ukraine knew this. So Russia forbade it.
Ukraine is not part of NATO. Even assuming your argument to be true, it doesn't justify RUssia's invasion
quote:
He orchestrated a coup d'etat
Russia inadvertently did this by having their puppet screw over the people of Ukraine and renege on their path to the EU and, instead, took a trade deal with Russia that subjugated Ukraine and would be worse for Ukrainian citizens.
Are you arguing that the US influenced him to do this?
Now, after Russia over-stepped with their puppet, did we influence the replacement? Yes. Did that have any meaningful effect? No.
Is Zelensky the person the US helped put in power? No.
So, again, how does Zelensky, who actually ousted our guy in a contested election, have any association with the 2014 transitional government?
This post was edited on 3/25/23 at 6:16 am
Posted on 3/25/23 at 6:23 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Cuba, Panama, Nicaragua, Columbia, Bolivia, Grenada, etc could speak to that.
Which are currently being controlled by the US or are under threat of US invasion today?
Why are you applying pre-90s standards to very old acts?
There have been very few direct invasions since the post-USSR reality. The world has become interconnected with free trade and rising up the world and developing together. That's why you can really only point to 2 invasions: The US invasion of Iraq and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Neither were justified and both disrupted the world's economic efficiency.
The primary difference is the US could actually, you know, invade and win. Russia can't even do that correctly.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 6:48 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Countries existing in the shadow of a disproportionately powerful neighbor have all the rights to determine their own priorities any country does ... as long as those priorities don't negatively impact their neighbor.
OK and after walking my dog (in the rain) I realized if we accept this statement to be true, then Russia is facing a disproportionately powerful neighbor in the EU (and via association, the US).
So you just justified our involvement
Posted on 3/25/23 at 6:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Any of them who are willing to to take on Russian nuclear capable bases, or otherwise threaten US national security.
Which are currently being controlled by the US or are under threat of US invasion today?
Of course being weaker albeit apparently brighter than their Ukrainian counterparts, they've recently chosen to "behave" in accordance with US tolerances to avoid that outcome. Middle Eastern regimes haven't been so smart.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 6:51 am to ReeseBobby
quote:Cuba, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan say hello
What’s weird is people confused as to why anyone would support a country defending themselves after they where invaded by a much larger neighbor.
This post was edited on 3/25/23 at 6:53 am
Posted on 3/25/23 at 6:57 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:You conflate fact and consequence with justification. I'm surprised your dog wouldn't have pointed that out as he pissed on someone else's mailbox.
OK and after walking my dog (in the rain) I realized if we accept this statement to be true, then Russia is facing a disproportionately powerful neighbor in the EU (and via association, the US).
So you just justified our involvement
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:01 am to NC_Tigah
quote:except the Obama and Biden administrations adjusted Ukrainian politics to their likings. Similar to the relationship between Cuba and the USSR many years ago.
Countries existing in the shadow of a disproportionately powerful neighbor have all the rights to determine their own priorities any country does
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:02 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You conflate fact and consequence with justification.
This applies to the words I quoted, too.
Whatever triggers you believe Ukraine to have pulled re: Russia, Russia just did the same thing re: EU/US.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:03 am to Asharad
quote:
except the Obama and Biden administrations adjusted Ukrainian politics to their likings. S
In Response to Russia "adjusting Ukrainian politics to their liking"
But what does this have to do with Zelensky, who ousted the guy you referenced the US helped get in power?
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Russia shutdown the Warsaw Pact. The US/EU expanded NATO.
Whatever triggers you believe Ukraine to have pulled re: Russia, Russia just did the same thing re: EU/US.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:08 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Putin warns Nato over expansion
And by invading Ukraine he has ensured the further expansion of NATO. He absolutely HAS to take all of Ukraine now because, if he doesn't, whatever portion of Ukraine remains independent will immediately join NATO upon the war's conclusion. Not to mention the fact that soon Finland and Sweden will be member states as a direct result of Putin's aggressive actions in Ukraine.
This post was edited on 3/25/23 at 7:11 am
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:11 am to GhostOfFreedom
This is a weird thread. Is this an echo chamber?
Check that box.
Check that box.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Ironically, considering who they ended up with in Zelensky, corruption in the previous administration led to Zelensky's election. Aside from extraordinary political inexperience, what are the differences in his approach to Russia and the west from those of his predecessor?
But what does this have to do with Zelensky, who ousted the guy you referenced the US helped get in power?
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:13 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Russia shutdown the Warsaw Pact.
When has the West invaded a former WP country?
Unless you're claiming Iraq was part of the WP, you're going to have a difficult time.
quote:
The US/EU expanded NATO.
And Russia will ensure further expansion.
When the USSR fell, the world changed. As the world changed, it has developed even more due to the lack of a USSR mucking things up and creating inefficiencies. Trying to compare alleged 1991 informal agreements to a world in 2022-2023 that has changed exponentially is foolish.
It's like complaining about violation of Renaissance social norms in Victorian England. Simply 2 different worlds that aren't comparable.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:13 am to RollTide1987
quote:Time will tell.
And by invading Ukraine he has ensured the further expansion of NATO.
quote:Not without a firm peace in place.
whatever portion of Ukraine remains independent will immediately join NATO upon the war's conclusion.
quote:So?
Not to mention the fact that soon Finland and Sweden will be member states as a direct result of Putin's aggressive actions in Ukraine.
Posted on 3/25/23 at 7:15 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Aside from extraordinary political inexperience, what are the differences in his approach to Russia and the west from those of his predecessor?
If your major point is US interference, the point dies when the interference dies.
In this case, that occurred when Z ousted our puppet.
If your argument is that Z doesn't have differing policies from our puppet, then it raises questions about your overall point, because that just strengthens the argument that Ukraine wants to be European and not a Russia vassal state. A non-puppet having the same ideas as the puppet, who shares the same ideas with the millions who rioted after Russian interference, kind of shows you what Ukrainians think (without US influence).
So thank you for making my point.
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