re: Only in bizarro world is complete sexual repression equated with "freedom for women"

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I don't see this campaign reinforcing Islamophobia, or even speaking to Muslim women. Leila Ahmed's book A Quiet Revolution does an amazing job discussing how the hijab moved from symbol of Westernization (as in deveiling) to a symbol about women's autonomy (about the choice, whether religious, political or personal) to choose to wear the hijab or not. Until people realize how the symbol has changed in its meaning, in of itself and for the women who choose to wear it, then the conversations about the veil will remain elementary, and frankly, as stupid as this ad.

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I know you are a reasonable and knowledgeable poster on these topics, but I don't agree with you here. Whether a "choice" or not, the point of the niqab is to hide a woman's sexuality. It is the very opposite of empowerment. I pretty much view Islam as a complicated means of repressing women.

I was recently in the middle east, and the thousands of women I saw in niqab and burkha did not convey "choice" or "power". They conveyed submission to their husbands (often dressed in jeans and t-shirt) and complete denial of their sexuality.

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I pretty much view Islam as a complicated means of repressing women.

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All the Abrahamic religions have this aspect to them. Islam has regressed significantly since the 60's in this regard.

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Whether a "choice" or not, the point of the niqab is to hide a woman's sexuality. It is the very opposite of empowerment.

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But if a woman chooses to express her religiousness in this way, how is it not empowering to her? She should have the freedom to choose, which is the point that Islamic feminists make, as the symbol has taken on a broader meaning since it's reintroduction (in a sense) in countries where Islamism took hold. The conversation should center on what the women want for themselves, which is the ultimate point I'm making. I'm not denying its prevalence, especially in the lower classes, or that it is indicative of a lack of choice on the part of women in Islamic countries as a whole, but I'm skeptical of the ability of a sort of cultural imperialism to create lasting change. There is always a backlash, and it's been used to great effect by religious conservatives, whose power base is always more engaged than liberals or socialists in Islamic countries.

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They conveyed submission to their husbands (often dressed in jeans and t-shirt) and complete denial of their sexuality.

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Obviously that is wrong, and I'm not suggesting that I support the Islamists view; rather, I'm suggesting that if a woman chooses to cover herself, it should be her choice alone. Some Western Muslims have this choice, and often express this choice for a multiplicity of reasons. Other Western Muslims do not have the ability to choose whether to wear it or not, and that is what we do not want. While we may think a style of dress, and the implications inherent to that style, are superior than traditional modes, if we attempt to undertake a type of cultural imperialism, there will be a backlash, and we will return to square one, in my view.

To completely eradicate the tradition, you would need to replace it with a tradition of secularism, a tradition of wealth, and a tradition of choice. None of that is achievable without listening to what Islamic feminists have to say. I encourage you to look at Leila Ahmed and see what she has to say, as well as other Islamic feminists. That opposition to veiling in the West exists means that for some women, the veil becomes a symbol unto itself, a transformation which political commentators outside of Ahmed have yet to consider.

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Whether a "choice" or not, the point of the niqab is to hide a woman's sexuality. It is the very opposite of empowerment.

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How is dressing like a slut empowering?

Show me on the doll where Bar Rafeili touched you

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4 weeks, 16 weeks before full term. Try to convince me that isn't a baby and that aborting it isn't killing that human being.

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I don’t have to convince you.

Words have meanings. Merriam Wesbster should convince you.

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Show me on the doll where Bar Rafeili touched you

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You are obviously gay.

Wordnik.

I have no arguement. Straw man.

Babies aren’t killed.

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Babies aren’t kllled.

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I bet Kermit Gosnell is a personal hero of yours.

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NP to the C

Obviously it’s not your day with the brain. Lol.

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When you go ad hom I know I’ve won.

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Who forces American Muslim women to cover their bodies?

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Their husbands