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re: Often unqualified affirmative action students like Kamala Harris fail the bar exam

Posted on 9/11/17 at 4:00 pm to
Posted by StrongSafety
Member since Sep 2004
18000 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 4:00 pm to
Because you didn't go to one.

IMO, if you have problem with racial preferences, you should have as big of a problem with legacy/nepotism.

It's 100% meritless, just like race right ?

Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

Because you didn't go to one.

So. By definition. Your assertion regarding why i oppose affirmative action is false. Just sayin
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
35492 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 4:17 pm to
I don't really care what a private institution does, but colleges get so much public money (even privates) it's hard to separate them.

I believe all forms of racial preferences are wrong, regardless of which race it benefits. If you want racism to disappear, then the first to go should be state sponsored racism: AA, quotas, etc.

Other types of preferences will always exist in any type selective situation, whether it is hiring, admissions, sports tryouts. These include friends, family, donors, alumni, etc. This is just a part of life in every country that has ever existed in the world. You may as well make your peace with it.

If the father of little Johnny (or little Tyrone, Ismael, Jose, Pierre, Chang or Vladamir) donates big money to a school, then guess what: his kid is getting in.

However, according to the stats, these supposed nepotism cases don't affect the overall admission percentages, so it appears the vast majority would have been accepted anyway.
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:18 pm to
quote:

Other types of preferences will always exist in any type selective situation, whether it is hiring, admissions, sports tryouts. These include friends, family, donors, alumni, etc. This is just a part of life in every country that has ever existed in the world. You may as well make your peace with it.

Why is nepotism inherently less of an issue? I think if you did a study on which demographics are more likely to benefit from nepotism in these situations you would find that things like AA don't even scratch the surface in terms of evening the playing field.

That said, I am against AA because it gives people an excuse to assume that every minority in a good school or good job received assistance. Wouldn't it be equally unfair for me to assume every young white hire has connections to the upper management? I think it would be very unfair for me to assume that.
Posted by texashorn
Member since May 2008
13122 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:25 pm to
quote:

Why is nepotism inherently less of an issue?

Because you can hide your sister's frat boy eff up in a menial job without getting your arse sued off. Plus, "they sucked at their job" isn't a legal defense.
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:26 pm to
quote:

Because you can hide your sister's frat boy eff up in a menial job without getting your arse sued off. Plus, "they sucked at their job" isn't a legal defense.

Wut?
Posted by texashorn
Member since May 2008
13122 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:30 pm to
Wut? Do you speak English, mofo? I said that affirmative action's "evening the playing field" has created a class of worthless work slugs that you couldn't rid yourself of, without threat of litigation.

Which is why affirmative action is worse than nepotism.
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:32 pm to
quote:

Do you speak English, mofo?
Your first response was completely unintelligible.

quote:

created a class of worthless work slugs that you couldn't rid yourself of, without threat of litigation.
I am curious to see your source on this. From my observation, most folks "experiences" with AA are anecdotal assumptions about how someone was hired. If you need a reference look at the original post. He makes an assertion about someone receiving preferential hiring with zero proof or reference. That is how this subject is almost always handled and therefore you and the OP have no credibility with me unless you present actual facts.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 6:34 pm
Posted by The_Duke
Member since Nov 2016
4374 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:38 pm to
Black ppl in a position of esteem got there through AA.


Didn't you know that?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138752 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:39 pm to
quote:

That said, I am against AA
I'm not, at all.

But I am against solely race based AA. Children of a Black multimillionaire should not be supported by AA.
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:44 pm to
quote:

Children of a Black multimillionaire should not be supported by AA.
A child of a multi-millionaire is far more likely to benefit from other forms of preference (which are far more rampant) than instances of AA being the difference.
However, just like anyone complaining about AA my opinion is based solely on anecdotal observation which is prone to being incorrect.

If we are talking about school admissions or job hiring my opinion is fairly straight forward: There should be minimum measurable qualifications that are non-negotiable. Once those are met the school or the work-place should be able to select whoever they believe is the best candidate for their school or their company. Best candidate sometimes means "best fit" in terms of skill-set but should probably not have anything to do with race or gender.

That said, certain races and genders benefit overwhelmingly from nepotism compared to other demographics and so while I don't support AA conceptually I actually think it isn't doing any harm. In fact, despite its flaws it probably helps more than it hurts over all...
Posted by texashorn
Member since May 2008
13122 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:47 pm to
Are you kidding? The affirmative action fueled government workforce can't find its arse with both hands.
Posted by Seldom Seen
Member since Feb 2016
48737 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:51 pm to
quote:

Often unqualified affirmative action students like Kamala Harris fail the bar exam



We've still never seen Obama's college records. I hope they don't think they can pass off another affirmative action case on us.
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:53 pm to
The only rampant preferential hiring in the government work force is due to Veterans Preference.

VP is a direct system which allows a minimally qualified veteran to be hired over a more qualified candidate. In other words, an MIT PHD scientist could be passed over for a University of Phoenix grad Veteran.

Strangely i never hear any complaints about this from conservatives?
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:54 pm to
The thought process is these people gave a portion of their time to service. This time could have been spent training or attaining qualifications, but was spent in service.

Affirmative action people were born a minority.


Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:57 pm to
I am not against Veterans Preference. I was responding to an argument that said the government work force was suffering from minority preference hiring. I was explaining to him what preference hiring actually looks like in the fed.
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 6:59 pm to
I was specifically commenting on you wondering why conservatives don't complain about VP as much as AA.


Fwiw, I'm against VP executed to the level it is
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 7:04 pm to
Fair enough. I tend to think getting hired over someone more qualified for VP or AA is not a good solution. I would prefer for Vets that they create new professional programs just for Vets that maybe take you from gs 5 to 13 (starting grade determined by mil rank or current salary). This would be better than giving them an advantage on every single billet.

For AA, maybe scholarships instead of admission.. Not sure
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 7:07 pm to
Get more minorities interested in STEM and appreciating higher education.

Get merit-based scholarships requiring grades equal to those of other scholarships.

Get trade school options for ALL lower income people who don't have the gumption or ability for higher education while emphasizing the importance of higher education so they work to give their kids a better life and have the means to do so.

Criminal justice reform.

If the above doesn't work, nothing will.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 7:08 pm
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 9/11/17 at 7:08 pm to
I am a STEM volunteer in NOLA. It definitely helps. We dont specifically target minorities but there are several in our program.
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