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Started By
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re: Officer in Eric Garner case: I never used a choke hold
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:07 am to onmymedicalgrind
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:07 am to onmymedicalgrind
While I'm no expert on choke holds, it certainly looked like one to me.
I think it would be in the best interest of the NYPD to do a demonstration on exactly what a choke hold is.......they can use Al as the demonstration dummy.
I think it would be in the best interest of the NYPD to do a demonstration on exactly what a choke hold is.......they can use Al as the demonstration dummy.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:07 am to Turbeauxdog
From the link you provided.
Where does it say his windpipe was crushed in this extremely vague segment?
quote:
On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was “homicide,” specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleo’s chokehold and “the compression of [Garner’s] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” according to spokeswoman, Julie Bolcer.
Where does it say his windpipe was crushed in this extremely vague segment?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:07 am to Homesick Tiger
No. And every homicide by police is not negligent.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:11 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:The medical examiner's report was bizarre, just fwiw. The pathological differences between asphyxia due to windpipe obstruction, and asphyxia d/t chest compression are totally different. Yet the medical examiner tossed them in together along with underlying asthma, coronary disease, etc, etc . . . . hell, the ME should have thrown in bad karma to make it a hat trick. Really weird report.
is the medical examiner wrong?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:12 am to Wtodd
You have to split a hair pretty finely to say a chokehold wasn't used in a death where compression of the neck is one of the primary contributing factors. But the cops aren't above trying to split that hair.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:14 am to the808bass
Neck, windpipe, throat. All the same.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:14 am to baybeefeetz
quote:Nope.
Neck, windpipe, throat. All the same.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:15 am to LSURussian
Yeah I was being sarcastic.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:16 am to NC_Tigah
When reports started to come out about the initial autopsy, the police were calling the report political. For whatever that's worth.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:18 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
the medical examiner tossed them in together along with
This doesn't mean anything. The ME is well aware of the pathological differences between asphyxia due to neck compression and chest compression. The main difference being one is done to the neck and one is done to the chest. Listing both isnt a conflation of the pathology. It's simply noting both's role in the death.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:19 am to baybeefeetz
The throat is everything in front of the spine. No one is arguing he compressed the spine. I'm sure if a union rep thought he could get away with that argument, he would.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:22 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
When reports started to come out about the initial autopsy, the police were calling the report political. For whatever that's worth.
Yes. The ME is political. The police officer's association is altruistic and unbiased.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:29 am to the808bass
quote:ORLY? Do tell.
Listing both isnt a conflation of the pathology. It's simply noting both's role in the death.
Please.
What are typical pathological differences between the two?
For that matter, absent tracheal injury and/or cervical ecchymosis, how could the ME possibly differentiate OSA from exogenous airway occlusion?
I assume you understand importance of the question relative to the death of a massively obese man.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:31 am to the808bass
quote:Here it is:
I'm on my phone. Can someone quote the NYPD policy on chokeholds?
quote:
Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.
quote:LINK
If a person appears to be having difficulty breathing or is otherwise demonstrating life-threatening symptoms, medical assistance will be requested immediately. The patrol supervisor will direct that alternate means to maintain custody be utilized, if appropriate.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:32 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
absent tracheal injury and/or cervical ecchymosis
Are those absent in this case?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:33 am to the808bass
quote:Possibly.
The ME is political
Having read the Garner report, the ME is either political or incompetent, or both. Either way he should do better or be shown the door.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:37 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
I think the whole issue with this case is that people are looking at it immediately from the perspective of "this isn't right." I just think that's not fair minded. If you don't assume nefarious purposes or unconscious bias that works in A nefarious way, and you just ask yourself how did they arrive at this decision, you can see several avenues but which they did so.
That says nothing about the way the grand jury process worked, or the way that it should work. I'm just talking about this case. And the facts. And the law. Not a social crusade
And this wins the internet for the day.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:38 am to the808bass
quote:LINK
Are those absent in this case?
Now then.
Let's return to your political ME's report.
Care to answer the question as to differentiating autopsy results between obstructive vs compression asphyxia? Differences, if any, between autopsy presentations of endogenous vs atraumatic exogenous airway obstruction?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:43 am to mmcgrath
quote:
A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to,
Policy may need a rewrite. If it's not limited to this, what is it limited to? Once the settlement happens, it will probably get one.
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