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Message
re: NZ Parents refuse vaccinated blood for life-saving surgery on their baby
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:12 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:12 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
What is this 'knowledge' you're talking about? Is it secret only to this one medical provider?
It's a hypothetical premise. That you are running from it says a lot. If the doctor knew the vaccine was relatively dangerous, do you think the FDA approval protects him.
It's a simply question.
1
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:17 pm to moneyg
I'm not running from it. Its just kind of a dumb hypothetical, especially considering this started by talking about what has really happened in the world, not a fantasy.
FDA approval, by itself, does not protect a doctor if the doctor is giving a patient something they know will do more harm than good.
FDA approval, by itself, does not protect a doctor if the doctor is giving a patient something they know will do more harm than good.
This post was edited on 11/30/22 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:18 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Obviously regardless of FDA approval on anything, if a doctor knows that giving a specific patient some type of drug/vaccine/whatever will do more harm than good, yeah they would be in trouble and risk losing their license.
Glad you answered directly.
That's going to be the case made at some point. They knew, or should have known. There are many that knew. And, there are many that decided to allow centralized medicine to drive their medical decisions.
I'm not going to make a legal case or prediction that doctors will be found liable for injury. But, they should be. Many doctors ignored what they were seeing and believed and adopted the position of centralized medicine. That's a violation of their oath.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:23 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
Doctors giving FDA-approved vaccinations to at-risk populations to prevent illnesses for which it was tested are practicing within standards of care. Anybody can be sued or have a board complaint filed against them at any time, but giving a vaccine when you know there are harms associated with it isn't something that gets anyone in trouble. All vaccines have harms. Their use is justified by lowering the relative risk of overall harm including risks from the disease itself.
Calling children an at-risk population is going to be a pretty tough argument.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:28 pm to moneyg
The way doctors are trained is to proportion their belief to the strength of evidence. There is a rich literature of well-documented harms to kids from COVID and >1500 deaths.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:36 pm to lsunurse
quote:
So if a 5 year will die without a blood transfusion and the mom refuses because of her beliefs….you are saying the doctor should just be like “ok then, oh well, what funeral home would you like us to contact?”
the US constitution is a wonderful thing
you should read it one day because you sure are blatantly ignorant about what our rights are, and what you can, and cannot, force people to do against their wills.
but liberal democrats like you are all about burning the constitution and creating a socialist dictatorship
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:36 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
The way doctors are trained is to proportion their belief to the strength of evidence. There is a rich literature of well-documented harms to kids from COVID and >1500 deaths.
Does that literature take into account Omicron vs. the original variants? Your "from COVID" is a suspiciously general statement. What was the active strain when you recommended the vaccine to the child? What was the risk of that strain? Do you still recommend vaccines for children? If not, what changed. If yes, what are you basing that on now?
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:43 pm to terd ferguson
quote:
The same medical industry that thinks it's OK to dole out hormone blockers to kids... yeah they know what's best.
and dont forget the gender surgeries for 5-8 yr olds they want without even notifying parents first. a school nurse decides your kid is the wrong sex and thats all they need to start slicing and dicing on kids who the teacher convinced them they were born the wrong sex
lsunurse thinks doing that is great, and its helping kids
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:51 pm to moneyg
quote:
That's going to be the case made at some point. They knew, or should have known. There are many that knew. And, there are many that decided to allow centralized medicine to drive their medical decisions.
I'm not going to make a legal case or prediction that doctors will be found liable for injury. But, they should be. Many doctors ignored what they were seeing and believed and adopted the position of centralized medicine. That's a violation of their oath.
What you are calling centralized medicine is really standard of care that they all follow. And I'm not sure what you are saying they knew and ignored. You're saying doctors were intentionally killing their patients?
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:51 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
TigerDoc
Yes or no...
Is it reasonable for a middle aged man (47 for example) to decide that the vaccine isn't needed and the risk of the disease (low) isn't worth the risk of the vaccine (also low).
Could a smart, reasonable person reach that conclusion in your opinion?
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:54 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
What you are calling centralized medicine is really standard of care that they all follow. And I'm not sure what you are saying they knew and ignored. You're saying doctors were intentionally killing their patients?
I'm saying many doctors decided not to completely inform their patients and instead pushed the vaccine because that's what they were told to do and they didn't want to face the backlash (in some cases their jobs) of not doing it.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 5:59 pm to keakar
quote:
the US constitution is a wonderful thing you should read it one day because you sure are blatantly ignorant about what our rights are, and what you can, and cannot, force people to do against their wills. but liberal democrats like you are all about burning the constitution and creating a socialist dictatorship
And you should learn how the court system works when these cases were brought by the hospitals to a court and a court allowed doctors to proceed with the child receiving life saving blood transfusions
Posted on 11/30/22 at 6:01 pm to the_truman_shitshow
Wife still cannot donate blood because she lived in Europe. Odd that the bloodbanks have no issue screening for euro folks but cannot find the time to check if the blood the collected is congealing.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 6:32 pm to moneyg
quote:
I'm saying many doctors decided not to completely inform their patients and instead pushed the vaccine because that's what they were told to do and they didn't want to face the backlash (in some cases their jobs) of not doing it.
Doctors knew what exactly and failed to inform their patients? That vaccines carry risks?
It just seems like you’re really reaching here. Given how widespread the vaccine was being used, no doctor is or should be at risk for giving it to their patients.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 6:33 pm to Bulldogblitz
quote:
check if the blood the collected is congealing.
They do.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 6:42 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
what is the "vaccine product" that's objectionable in the donated blood? Presumably they'll say mRNA, but does that mean vector vaccines are ok? mRNA is metabolized within hours to days anyway (per research long pre-pandemic), so what's their rationale?
I don’t know. I have no idea the rationale. I can’t wrap my head around any of this. I have had this discussion during the pandemic and early in the vaccination process. He was bleeding to death from his arse but wanted to be sure the blood he received was unvaccinated. When we told him that it is not a prohibiting factor to donation so there is no such thing as known unvaxxed blood he protested. After he got up to shite 2 or 3 more times he. Changed his stance.
Letting my son die? No chance.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 6:55 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Doctors knew what exactly and failed to inform their patients? That vaccines carry risks?
Quit being dense. They knew the vaccine was less effective than the literature and FDA suggested. They knew it was more dangerous than the literature and FDA were suggesting. You don’t have to agree. But why do you feel the need to pretend you don’t understand what is being discussed.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 7:03 pm to moneyg
quote:
think acting under FDA guidance protects them if they had knowledge that the vaccine was dangerous?
Define dangerous.
Then define benefit versus risk?
Surgery is dangerous. Beta blockers are dangerous. Hydroxychloroquine has a shite ton of side effects. Methotrexate does. Prednisone does. Every blood thinner does. Coumadin is used as rat poison. To suggest that the nurses and doctors were in some grand conspiracy is pretty fricking inflammatory. I believe you can frick yourself right in the arse with a dildo covered in small pox fluid.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 7:14 pm to moneyg
quote:
Quit being dense. They knew the vaccine was less effective than the literature and FDA suggested. They knew it was more dangerous than the literature and FDA were suggesting. You don’t have to agree. But why do you feel the need to pretend you don’t understand what is being discussed.
This discussion was about doctors losing their licenses for giving the vaccine. Everything you just said is pure conjecture, but even if those things are true, it doesn’t equate to them intentionally misleading any patient or ignoring medical practices or their own opinion on the vaccine.
You’re assuming those doctors didn’t still believe the vaccine was worth getting.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 7:29 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
We do not separate or label blood based on a donor’s Covid-19 vaccination status
Remember when they did this with AIDS blood...good times
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