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re: NY Times: Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo

Posted on 11/5/19 at 4:39 pm to
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138930 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

Speaking of lying to investigators
Sondland did not lie, at least IAW today's clarification. Nor did he establish any QPQ Biden demand on Trump's part.
Clear?
Posted by Gtothemoney
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
17722 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 4:40 pm to
How does sondland know what others have testified? I thought it was done in behind closed down bc Schiff said he didn’t want someone’s testimony to be influenced by others?
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11847 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 4:44 pm to
This convo between Sondland and Trump was on September 9, same day that the whistleblower complaint got to Schiff.

Trump he mad (and covering tracks).

Posted by Ham Malone
Member since Nov 2010
2695 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 4:48 pm to
You weren’t lying, this guy has page after page of posts with lame insults followed by a space and 2 exclamation marks. It’s hilarious and also disturbing
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138930 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 4:57 pm to
quote:


and?

What EXACTLY did Zelensky "run on"?

Cite Biden's name ANYWHERE in terms of what Zelensky "ran on"?
Take your time.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138930 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 4:59 pm to
quote:

You guys have moved the goalposts so many times they’re out in the parking lot
The "goalposts" were a Biden investigation QPQ . . . backatcha SLU Grad.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138930 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

same day that the whistleblower complaint got to Schiff.
The WBC got to Schiff before it was written.
Posted by texridder
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Oct 2017
14944 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

Neither. His interpretation was Biden was part of the deal. When he verified with the WH, he was told there is no QPQ related to Biden. However, there was a desire to force EU contributions, and to ensure US money wasn't getting tossed into a corrupt sewer.


ZELENSKY:
quote:

We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.


TRUMP:
quote:

I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62079 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 5:42 pm to
I wonder how many things they threatened him with to refresh his memory?
Posted by texridder
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Oct 2017
14944 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 5:47 pm to
quote:

Congrats on completely discrediting yourself.

How exactly did he completely "discredit" himself?

By posting an article that reported on testimony given to Congress?

That's pretty extreme.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 5:50 pm to
And?
Posted by texridder
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Oct 2017
14944 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 6:18 pm to
ZELENSKY:
quote:

We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

TRUMP:
quote:

I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.

quote:

And?

When the U.S. was ready to sell Javelins to Ukraine in 2018, Ukraine stopped cooperating with the Mueller investigation, AND put it's own investigation into Manafort into the deep freeze.

What a coincidence.

Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 6:20 pm to
I am not sure coincidence is something you want to try to argue on this.

However, can you prove your coincidence?

You know what, who cares? Lets vote now. Lets see how it plays out.
Posted by lalouisiane
Member since Jul 2017
381 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 10:30 pm to
Looks like many here have resorted to trying to descredit Sondland. This guy was handpicked by Trump and directly plugged into everything that went down. Of course he tried to pull the "I do not recall" routine at first. Now that the committee has more information he knew he had to come clean.

Now that it is established that there was a quid pro quo, we will hear more arguments that it doesn't matter, isn't an impeachable offense, or that Biden did it too.

Bottom line is he used US foreign policy for his own personal gain.
This post was edited on 11/5/19 at 10:49 pm
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 10:46 pm to

I now do recall a conversation on September 1, 2019, in Warsaw with [Ukrainian official] Mr. Yermak. This brief pull-aside conversation followed the larger meeting involving Vice President Pence and President Zelensky, in which President Zelensky had raised the issue of the suspension of US aid to Ukraine directly with VP Pence. After that large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of US aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 10:50 pm to
"In fact, Ambassador Sondland said ‘everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance,” Taylor testified.
Taylor testified that Trump wanted Zelensky “in a public box” by making a public statement about ordering the investigations
Posted by John McClane
Member since Apr 2010
37180 posts
Posted on 11/5/19 at 11:46 pm to
quote:

I now do recall a conversation on September 1, 2019, in Warsaw with [Ukrainian official] Mr. Yermak. This brief pull-aside conversation followed the larger meeting involving Vice President Pence and President Zelensky, in which President Zelensky had raised the issue of the suspension of US aid to Ukraine directly with VP Pence. After that large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of US aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks
.

So was this Sondland’s take or did POTUS tell him this was the case?

That’s a very important distinction.
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 11/6/19 at 11:19 am to
quote:

So was this Sondland’s take or did POTUS tell him this was the case?

That’s a very important distinction.



I don't know if we know this or not.
Posted by Spirit Of Aggieland
Houston
Member since Aug 2011
4607 posts
Posted on 11/6/19 at 11:36 am to
I agree. But you’d be hard pressed to find people who believe that Sondland would “go rogue” and act contrary to what Trump instructed him to say and do.

Trump can say “No quid pro quo” (but aside, make it clear to Sondland that he inform Ukraine officials that resumption of aid is dependent on the public anti-corruption statement.)

Posted by John McClane
Member since Apr 2010
37180 posts
Posted on 11/6/19 at 11:55 pm to
If you don’t know this, then impeachment is dead in the water. Sondland is the key. If there is no evidence confirming a direct order for a QPQ, then this impeachment attempt will fall very short.

And that’s presuming that a QPQ is even inappropriate.
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