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re: Northwestern Football Players Can Unionize
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:26 pm to UsingUpAllTheLetters
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:26 pm to UsingUpAllTheLetters
quote:
I'm going to feel pretty sad for the kids that just want to play ball if this ruins college sports.
It has that potential.
0
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:28 pm to Mr.Perfect
quote:
Because Title IX was about screwing over Football dominated schools. thats all
BUT, if women are eligible to play football (as Mo Isom showed, they are), then shouldn't both the scholarship numbers AND MONEY spent count against both women's and men's numbers?
That would pretty much solve the inequities (and resulting absurdity) of the perverted interpretation of Title IX.
This post was edited on 3/26/14 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:35 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
quote:The NCAA is going to have to address a lot of thins bc of this ruling.
quote:
Why?
It's called getting your foot in the door.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:40 pm to MMauler
quote:
No one cares how many football players graduate with degrees in Chemical Engineering with 4.0 GPAs.
I hear what you are saying; their skills are demand. Here's the reality / back of the napkin cost estimate for any top 10 program:
Coaching and support staff salaries: $10M/Year
Police / crowd control: $2M / year
Scholarships, room & board, books, etc;. $5M / year
Physical plant improvements in terms of practice facility upgrades stadium depreciation, stadium upgrades $15M / year
You're looking at $33M a year in costs right there.
There is a reason kids go to Northwestern for over $50k a year in benefits to play basketball instead of going to play basketball professionally in europe, if they are so inclined.
Stop acting like the kids are exploited, they get far more value than a minor league system would provide for.
Just ask Zach Lee if he would rather be playing on saturdays or playing AAA baseball.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:44 pm to MMauler
quote:
then shouldn't both the scholarship numbers AND MONEY spent count against both women's and men's numbers?
The courts looks at the % of women & men on athletic scholarship vs the men/woman undergrad ratio. If a football team had a 15 women on scholarship, than 20% of the funds spent on football would count toward women's sports. Same as fencing, rifle shooting, and one other sport.
Also if 75% of your student body is male, than 75% of your scholarships can go to men. For example Navy offers twice the number of men's sports programs as they do women's
Title IX only cares about three prong approach-
1. Providing athletic participation opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment. This prong of the test is satisfied when participation opportunities for men and women are "substantially proportionate" to their respective undergraduate enrollment.
2. Demonstrating a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented sex. This prong of the test is satisfied when an institution has a history and continuing practice of program expansion that is responsive to the developing interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex (typically female).
3. Accommodating the interest and ability of underrepresented sex. This prong of the test is satisfied when an institution is meeting the interests and abilities of its female students even where there are disproportionately fewer females than males participating in sports.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:46 pm to LSUGrrrl
I've always thought college football players (well at least some) got a pretty raw deal. But I don't think this helps. I think it would be much better to just get rid of the "3 yr removed from HS" rule, although I know the NFL will never make that happen.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:50 pm to ironsides
quote:
Stop acting like the kids are exploited,
They aren't. None of them have to go to college and play.
Just disband the NCAA and start semi pro leagues.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:56 pm to LSUGrrrl
goodbye college football
Posted on 3/26/14 at 5:58 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Ehh, IDK Roger. I don't think just because you aren't held at gun point doesn't mean you can't still be exploited. Although, maybe exploited is a bit too strong of a word.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:13 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Ehh, IDK Roger. I don't think just because you aren't held at gun point doesn't mean you can't still be exploited. Although, maybe exploited is a bit too strong of a word.
I think the players get a pretty good deal for their labor. It's voluntary. and schools really don't benefit that much from athletics. IN fact, the overwhelming majority lose money over their entire athletic program. You could certainly say the networks are profiting, and if there is any merchandising that the players could easily get part of it.
I'd much rather players be allowed to pursue merchandising opportunities and endorsements than get direct pay for play. The value of their education probably exceeds what many Americans make for working. It will kill college sports, or many of them.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:19 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Why? Seems like Northwestern's problem.
Today. It's won't take long.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:26 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Solid points, and I do see where you are coming from. I don't think I was totally clear what I meant when I said I think some football players "get a raw deal." I'll explain better as I respond to your points.
Overall, probably so. At the end of the day, if you look at the amount of money JFF brought to A&M, its hard to argue his scholarship was commensurate compensation. I understand guys like him, Reggie Bush, Vince Young, etc are outliers, but my beef isn't as much about them not being paid directly by their university/NCAA. But why can't they profit off of their celebrity if a third party wants to pay them for, lets say, autographs or a club appearance? Why is that any of the NCAA's business? Especially when they are capitalizing off of #5 USC jerseys or #2 A&M jerseys. Thats what I mean by some getting a raw deal.
I mean, yes, technically its voluntary. But practically speaking, its not really if you want to pursue a career in pro football. You'd have a better argument if we were talking about college basketball since those guys could just play pro in Europe for a yr until they are eligible for the draft. It doesn't work that way in fball. Its "voluntary" just like certain internships are "voluntary" for those pursuing a career in law or residency is "voluntary" for MDs.
True, but FTR I'm limiting my argument to fball, not athletics as a whole.
Totally agree here
True, but one could argue the amount of work they do to get that schollie and maintain it is more than what many Americans go through on a day-to-day basis. It's not like they are getting this money and then sitting on their asses all day (theoretically speaking).
quote:
I think the players get a pretty good deal for their labor.
Overall, probably so. At the end of the day, if you look at the amount of money JFF brought to A&M, its hard to argue his scholarship was commensurate compensation. I understand guys like him, Reggie Bush, Vince Young, etc are outliers, but my beef isn't as much about them not being paid directly by their university/NCAA. But why can't they profit off of their celebrity if a third party wants to pay them for, lets say, autographs or a club appearance? Why is that any of the NCAA's business? Especially when they are capitalizing off of #5 USC jerseys or #2 A&M jerseys. Thats what I mean by some getting a raw deal.
quote:
It's voluntary.
I mean, yes, technically its voluntary. But practically speaking, its not really if you want to pursue a career in pro football. You'd have a better argument if we were talking about college basketball since those guys could just play pro in Europe for a yr until they are eligible for the draft. It doesn't work that way in fball. Its "voluntary" just like certain internships are "voluntary" for those pursuing a career in law or residency is "voluntary" for MDs.
quote:
Schools really don't benefit that much from athletics.
True, but FTR I'm limiting my argument to fball, not athletics as a whole.
quote:
I'd much rather players be allowed to pursue merchandising opportunities and endorsements than get direct pay for play.
Totally agree here
quote:
The value of their education probably exceeds what many Americans make for working.
True, but one could argue the amount of work they do to get that schollie and maintain it is more than what many Americans go through on a day-to-day basis. It's not like they are getting this money and then sitting on their asses all day (theoretically speaking).
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:30 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
True, but one could argue the amount of work they do to get that schollie and maintain it is more than what many Americans go through on a day-to-day basis. It's not like they are getting this money and then sitting on their asses all day (theoretically speaking).
Problem is, athletes aren't the only students involved in extra curricular activities. I see pay for play as the death knell to college football in the future. Maybe it's a good thing, the "student athlete" was kind of a charade anyway. But, every group involved in extra curricular activities may now want a piece of the pie. Schools just can't afford it.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:37 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong
schools really don't benefit that much from athletics.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:40 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Problem is, athletes aren't the only students involved in extra curricular activities.
True, but until the debate team is drawing 90,000+ fans and millions more on primetime TV, this is a kind of apples-oranges comparison. My argument isn't just that they are busy students, but they are doing something that makes ALOT of people very wealthy.....except themselves, of course.
quote:
Maybe it's a good thing, the "student athlete" was kind of a charade anyway.
True, and as long as there is a rule prohibiting players from entering the draft until 3 yrs out of high school, this charade will continue.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:46 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Not if they get processed.
I think the players get a pretty good deal for their labor.
Of all the aspects relative to the subject, the fact that an athlete suffering disabling injury could lose their scholly is horrible. It is flatly unacceptable that could happen to someone who was participating in behalf of the school. An injured athlete should NEVER be subject to losing a scholly. EVER!
Nor should they be subject to losing a scholarship if Nick Saban happens to have a really good recruiting year relative to their position at some future point. If they show up at practice, show up in class, and do the right thing, the school should be obligated WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:55 pm to LSUGrrrl
hopefully this goes well, but why do college athletes have to go to class, take tests, get good grades on test ect. Most of the athletes get special treatment anyway so they don't learn much while in college. Many times they will skew the numbers to get these kids into schools. Why not pay the kids, why do they have to be in school to play college football?
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:57 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
why do they have to be in school to play college football?
Because the NFL essentially requires it. And bc football isn't a global support, their only options are in the US, pretty much.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 6:57 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
Why not pay the kids, why do they have to be in school to play college football?
Eventually (I believe) we'll see semi pro football replace college football.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 7:00 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Eventually (I believe) we'll see semi pro football replace college football.
that is a long time way but I think this may be the first step in this process.
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