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Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:53 am to AlterEgo89
quote:
What about hospitalizations among the vaccinated versus unvaccinated (once you control for age and vulnerability)?
That's the important thing.
It doesn't matter if the virus spreads. It matters whether people become sick enough to go to the hospital, which is the entire crisis. If people are positive and don't need to go to the hospital, that's the entire crisis over.
Since when is that the important thing? The draconian mandates are based on cases. Testing is all about cases. Everything is about cases. Hospitalizations dont mean anything in all this.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:55 am to AlterEgo89
quote:
This suggests that vaccination seems to have reduced hospitalizations even in Israel.
False assumption. Regardless of vaccination the numbers will go down because the culling of the weak from herd. The weak die off first. As more weak folks die off, the percentage of people prone to severe infection decreases with them. This does not support vaccine effectiveness.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 11:06 am to PhDoogan
quote:Cuckerberg? Seems a lot easier.
Zuckercuck
Posted on 9/16/21 at 11:14 am to AlterEgo89
Or it could be that a lot more people got the virus previously so the pool is smaller now. Ever think about that, genius?
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 11:15 am
Posted on 9/16/21 at 11:57 am to xxTIMMYxx
quote:
Or it could be that a lot more people got the virus previously so the pool is smaller now. Ever think about that, genius?
I've thought about it but it doesn't seem to make much sense.
There were only around 100,000 deaths from the virus in the UK. The UK government predicts that there are around 300,000-400,000 vulnerable people at risk of the virus. The pool is not that much smaller because the UK underwent lockdown (and those lockdowns reduced the peak from 1000 deaths to less than 100). That suggests that without lockdown, there would have been far more deaths per day which suggests the pool is still very big.
If we look at the US where certain states have had less than half their population vaccinated, death rates are still extremely high. This suggests that there is still a large pool of people vulnerable to the pandemic in the US.
The UK will be similar to the UK in that regard. It doesn't seem plausible that the pool is so significantly small that the number of deaths has reduced to a 1/10th of what it was during the previous peaks of the pandemic.
UK health experts also say that vaccination has had a significant impact. I would think they've also thought about this
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 11:59 am to notsince98
There were only around 100,000 deaths from the virus in the UK. The UK government predicts that there are around 300,000-400,000 vulnerable people at risk of the virus. The pool is not that much smaller because the UK underwent lockdown (and those lockdowns reduced the peak from 1000 deaths to less than 100). That suggests that without lockdown, there would have been far more deaths per day which suggests the pool is still very big.
In any case, UK health experts say that vaccination has had an effect. I'm sure that if a tigerdroppings user can come up with suggestions, they've also probably considered this and ruled it out.
In any case, UK health experts say that vaccination has had an effect. I'm sure that if a tigerdroppings user can come up with suggestions, they've also probably considered this and ruled it out.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:01 pm to notsince98
quote:
Since when is that the important thing? The draconian mandates are based on cases. Testing is all about cases. Everything is about cases. Hospitalizations dont mean anything in all this.
No, it's about hospitalizations. It's always been about hospitalizations. That's why the elderly and vulnerable people were vaccinated first - if it had been about cases, you'd have expected younger people to be offered the vaccine first because younger people come into contact with far more people than older people.
The mandate is because vulnerable people aren't getting vaccinated and hence are getting hospitalized.
This whole crisis is because the hospitals were being clogged up with vulnerable people.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:01 pm to PhDoogan
quote:This isn't new news. The vaccines DO mitigate acuity.
New Study shows vaccine doesn't prevent Delta infection
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:29 pm to AlterEgo89
quote:
What about hospitalizations among the vaccinated versus unvaccinated (once you control for age and vulnerability)?
IDK. However, there appears to be new studies coming forward showing that the hospitalization numbers are cooked (shocked face).
quote:
quote:
The federal government requires hospitals to report every patient who tests positive for COVID, yet the overall tallies of COVID hospitalizations, made available on various state and federal dashboards and widely reported on by the media, do not differentiate based on severity of illness. Some patients need extensive medical intervention, such as getting intubated. Others require supplemental oxygen or administration of the steroid dexamethasone. But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission. How many patients fall into each category has been a topic of much speculation. In August, researchers from Harvard Medical School, Tufts Medical Center, and the Veterans Affairs Healthcare System decided to find out.
The study found that from March 2020 through early January 2021—before vaccination was widespread, and before the Delta variant had arrived—the proportion of patients with mild or asymptomatic disease was 36 percent. From mid-January through the end of June 2021, however, that number rose to 48 percent. In other words, the study suggests that roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for another reason entirely, or had only a mild presentation of disease.
The Atlantic (if you can believe it)
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:46 pm to AlterEgo89
quote:
Israel hospitalizations are averaging around 1000 per day (50% lower than the previous peak), which really isn't that bad considering the number of cases is the highest it's ever been (33% higher than previous peak).
LINK
LINK
This suggests that vaccination seems to have reduced hospitalizations even in Israel.
Correct...or, Delta is less dangerous...or a combination of both.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 12:48 pm to notsince98
quote:
False assumption. Regardless of vaccination the numbers will go down because the culling of the weak from herd. The weak die off first. As more weak folks die off, the percentage of people prone to severe infection decreases with them. This does not support vaccine effectiveness.
...another good point.
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