re: Navy officer applies to become the first ever woman to join the elite SEALs

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Yep, definitely Air Force comm. Don't worry, if you move to TACP you can at least pretend that you're really in the military.

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Ignorance at its finest

We're 22 pages in.

Are we still pretending that the fact that females, AT BEST, will graduate at a rate of no better than 1/6th that of men is irrelevant?

Are we still acting like we have unlimited training resources?

Are we still pretending that you couldn't take the next 200 men who were turned down for these courses and STILL get a graduation rate 4 to 5 times better than the best women you can find?

I'm just trying to see how deep down the rabbit hole this 22 pages has gone?

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Your entire argument stands on the point that most women can't make it. Unfortunately for that point, most men can't make it either.

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I can't speak for everyone else in this 22 pages, but my argument rests on the fact that when you set up a course like this, the course exists for ONE purpose. To turn out graduates.

That's why even when they only accepted men, they only accepted a SUBSET of men rather than let every man in decent shape try.

To be sure, many men who have not been accepted to try in the past might have passed. But, they would have done so at a lower rate and, the military doesn't have unlimited resources to conduct these courses.

Now, we want them to accept people to try who have not just a little less chance............but an ENORMOUSLY smaller chance of success.

That's just irrational.

I don't give a frick about the cohesion arguments.

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I can't speak for everyone else in this 22 pages, but my argument rests on the fact that when you set up a course like this, the course exists for ONE purpose. To turn out graduates.

That's why even when they only accepted men, they only accepted a SUBSET of men rather than let ever many in decent shape try.

To be sure, many men who have not been accepted to try in the past might have passed. But, they would have done so at a lower rate and, the military doesn't have unlimited resources to conduct these courses.

Now, we want them to accept people to try who have not just a little less chance............but an ENORMOUSLY smaller chance of success.

That's just irrational.

I don't give a frick about the cohesion arguments.

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The concern most of us should have is that standards will eventually be lowered. That's the primary concern of anyone that this actually touches. That needs to be fought to the end.

The current battle of fighting to keep them out entirely is a losing effort. It's time to move on from that.

We're left at the only conclusion that anyone should come to. Leave the standards in place, and let them try. If they fail, so be it.

Your argument about training resources is a solid point, but why only on this issue? We waste time, money, and effort on much more frivolous activities all the time. I don't see a push from any of you to get that under control.

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No shite, and people are dropped all the time, for various reasons. This doesn't need to be any different.

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and women shouldn't be part of the process.

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You're an Air Force radio nerd talking about what it takes to stay alive in combat. You should have told me that time, speed, and precision are critical when it comes to getting the last cinnamon roll at the chow hall. That would have been believable.

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and what do you do exactly....

Nothing you are a liar and a fraud.

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Why waist the time and money giving a female a place in the school when it needs to go to a man with a high % of making it through.

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There is more to being on a team than "making it through."

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Literally the military has been paying personal trainers for these women giving them a year of prep time to just pass the initial PT standards and they still can't meet the standard.

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I don't give a frick about that. We pay personal trainers to try to keep fat people in that can't maintain standards on their own, and a lot of them are still separated.

These are both weak points.

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I've dropped in on this thread from time to time, and I keep seeing you say this.

No matter how much you say it, it is irrelevant, because the thread topic is the topic being discussed here.

You know what a red herring is, right?

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I'm not the one that continues to bring it up. If the point is made, it will be addressed.

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That's your opinion. They are part of the process, whether you like it or not.

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they are support and that's fine

but they should not be operators and as of right now they are not.

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I'm not Air Force comm.

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You are a nothing. Pretending to be something you are not.

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The concern most of us should have is that standards will eventually be lowered.

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Meh

I don't care about that because by definition, that WILL happen. It HAS to happen for the reasons I pointed out.

If they continue to accept women candidates, they already know they are going to end up with fewer Rangers, Seals whatever on the other side of the course. They KNOW this. It is an unassailable certainty. And, it's not like the rate will be a little smaller. It will be a LOT smaller.

They'll lower standards just so they can get enough graduates.

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The current battle of fighting to keep them out entirely is a losing effort. It's time to move on from that.

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Then don't worry about the standards because I just explained to you why they MUST go down over the long haul because of this.

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Your argument about training resources is a solid point, but why only on this issue?

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It's the only issue because it's the only one that is 100% unassailable fact.

People will debate the cohesion issue. People will even argue that standards are unnecessarily high.

What cannot be argued is that men will succeed, WHATEVER the standard, at a rate several multiples of what women do.

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We waste time, money, and effort on much more frivolous activities all the time. I don't see a push from any of you to get that under control.

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Again, you miss the point.

The point is, we don't hold the courses for fun. We hold them so we can field rangers/seals/whatever.

Seal Platoons are 16 person.

The bottom is that the number of men required to garner 5 platoons of Seals will get you one platoon from females.

You have a 5 platoon gap to fill. For no better reason than feelings.

And, it would be one thing if the women being admitted were graduating at a rate similar to the men who didn't used to get selected. But, the reality is, the men who are just below the cut line to be admitted would STILL graduate at a rate MULTIPLES of women.

If women graduated at a 90% rate to men, maybe that would be worth it.

But, LOL. Nope.