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re: My anecdotal evidence of one reason why healthcare is so fricking high..., and rising!
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:51 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:51 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
profits came to 0.5 percent of total health care costs.
And all those middlemen and all those pencil pushers and all the office space and the computers and the paper... all a part of the exorbitant costs and we haven't touched on the payroll issues at the top of megacorp insurance company that keeps "profit" to a minimum.
It's just awful all those $100+k/year managers leading up those multimillionaire CEO's just can't make any money!
0
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:54 am to BamaAtl
quote:Holy fricking shite you are serious.
This is 100% true, and the fact that you think it's extraordinary illustrates your lack of comprehension on basic concepts.
Profit is an ACCOUNTING MEASUREMENT. It is the difference between revenues and costs.
Do you realize what you are saying? You are saying that free market economies are costlier and less efficient than planned economies like we saw in the ussr!
Wow!
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 11:56 am
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:56 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:FIFY
When you run healthcare like a business, then grant the business exemption from virtually all restraint-of-trade, anti-trust and consumer protection laws with which all other businesses are required to comply, then subsidize the business with massive public funds, expect the business to take advantage.
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 11:59 am
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:58 am to joeyb147
quote:
Why do you think nurses should be slaves to you?
You have to ask?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 11:59 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
why healthcare is so fricking high
Not enough doctors in this country and healthcare is a necessity.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:00 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
Not enough doctors in this country
The medical field is over regulated.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:02 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
all other businesses are required to comply
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:02 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:Blame AMA and ridiculous govt policy for that.
Not enough doctors in this country
We shut down more medical schools than we open. AMA is a threat to lives.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:05 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
You are saying that the profit motive INCREASES costs.
But competition drives costs down. Gubmint intervention eliminates competition (most markets only have one ACA carrier). If you eliminate competition, you can expect costs to go up.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:10 pm to Jax-Tiger
That is true as well.
But the definition of profit is revenue-cost.
Which is the same as: (Price x Quantity)-(Cost x quantity)
The issue with the "profit motive increases prices" is that companies cannot just say "Oh I want some more money so I will increase prices".... because quantity is inversely related to price. Demand curves slope down.
You cannot increase price without reducing quantity sold. THe one negates the other.
But the definition of profit is revenue-cost.
Which is the same as: (Price x Quantity)-(Cost x quantity)
The issue with the "profit motive increases prices" is that companies cannot just say "Oh I want some more money so I will increase prices".... because quantity is inversely related to price. Demand curves slope down.
You cannot increase price without reducing quantity sold. THe one negates the other.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:11 pm to FearlessFreep
Tons of waste, both money and time, in medical care.
Case in point, sleep studies. Most people can be diagnosed with sleep apnea with just a simple consult. Put them on an auto-titrating CPAP for a week, download the data, and see if the patient is feeling better.
But, if you want your insurance to pay for the equipment, they will require a full blown sleep study in a facility. It can take weeks, if not months in some places, to get an appointment. I would wager that 80+% all come back as garden variety OSA, which the doctor suspected when he sat down with his patient for the first office visit.
The insurance company isn't the only bad guy, the doctor has a little fiefdom he is trying to protect. They lobby against any changes to insurance that would reduce the need for sleep studies, successfully lobby against in-home sleep studies and I've even seen some doctors attempt to restrict general practitioners from having the ability to direct refer their patients to a sleep lab because the sleep doc wants the office visit along with the fee for reading the study. Don't get me started on the ones that own their lab, prescribed equipment, and then sell it to their patients!
Case in point, sleep studies. Most people can be diagnosed with sleep apnea with just a simple consult. Put them on an auto-titrating CPAP for a week, download the data, and see if the patient is feeling better.
But, if you want your insurance to pay for the equipment, they will require a full blown sleep study in a facility. It can take weeks, if not months in some places, to get an appointment. I would wager that 80+% all come back as garden variety OSA, which the doctor suspected when he sat down with his patient for the first office visit.
The insurance company isn't the only bad guy, the doctor has a little fiefdom he is trying to protect. They lobby against any changes to insurance that would reduce the need for sleep studies, successfully lobby against in-home sleep studies and I've even seen some doctors attempt to restrict general practitioners from having the ability to direct refer their patients to a sleep lab because the sleep doc wants the office visit along with the fee for reading the study. Don't get me started on the ones that own their lab, prescribed equipment, and then sell it to their patients!
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:16 pm to Ingloriousbastard
quote:
Personally, I believe the fix is to have free public hospitals that only deal with easy fixes and generics and to let private insurance pick up the rest or for people that only want to go to private hospitals instead.
They should have “poor hospitals” for poor people where they get free care. Set up schools to train “poor doctors” where poor kids with a high school diploma can go for a couple years and learn how to treat common poor people diseases like diabetes, drug overdose, gunshot wounds, etc. if you actually want to pay something the regular hospital would still be available
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:16 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
But competition drives costs down.
You ever try to shop around for an emergency appendectomy?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:16 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:just curious, what made this amusing to you?
all other businesses are required to comply
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:19 pm to Jax-Tiger
Ironically, the Democrats ignored economic fundamentals with the ACA.
President Obama touted decreased costs due to economies of scale due to adding 30M more people into the healthcare system - remember his promise that our premium costs would go down by $2500/yr? Economy of scale cost decreases don't come from increased demand. They are the result of increased supply and the increase in efficiency that comes with large scale production models. You can't just increase the demand and expect economy of scale savings with no plan to increase the supply.
One other specific requirement to Obamacare that caused prices to go up that I don't hear about. Obamacare limited Insurance companies by requiring that 80% of all revenue has to go to actual medical treatment. Meaning that insurance companies had to use 20% of their revenue to pay for overhead and profit.
This sounded good on the surface, but in order for an insurance company to increase their profit by 5%, they had to increase the cost of their product by 25%. The way to do that is to increase the rates they pay for medical services. Imagine the negotiations on this.
Doctor: "I am willing to charge $100 for an office visit."
Insurance company: "That would only leave us $25 to pay for overhead and profit. We need $50, but in order to do that, we need to pay you $200 per office visit. It's okay, we'll just jack up the rates to pay for it, since people are required to buy insurance. Is that okay?"
Doctor: "Hell, yeah!".
President Obama touted decreased costs due to economies of scale due to adding 30M more people into the healthcare system - remember his promise that our premium costs would go down by $2500/yr? Economy of scale cost decreases don't come from increased demand. They are the result of increased supply and the increase in efficiency that comes with large scale production models. You can't just increase the demand and expect economy of scale savings with no plan to increase the supply.
One other specific requirement to Obamacare that caused prices to go up that I don't hear about. Obamacare limited Insurance companies by requiring that 80% of all revenue has to go to actual medical treatment. Meaning that insurance companies had to use 20% of their revenue to pay for overhead and profit.
This sounded good on the surface, but in order for an insurance company to increase their profit by 5%, they had to increase the cost of their product by 25%. The way to do that is to increase the rates they pay for medical services. Imagine the negotiations on this.
Doctor: "I am willing to charge $100 for an office visit."
Insurance company: "That would only leave us $25 to pay for overhead and profit. We need $50, but in order to do that, we need to pay you $200 per office visit. It's okay, we'll just jack up the rates to pay for it, since people are required to buy insurance. Is that okay?"
Doctor: "Hell, yeah!".
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:20 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:You ever have your car break down, and have the towtruck company refuse to tell you how much it would charge to haul it to your mechanic?
You ever try to shop around for an emergency appendectomy?
Then have your mechanic fix it without advising you how much it would cost?
And then when another mechanic tries to set up shop in town, your mechanic uses his government-granted authority to refuse to allow him to do so?
Meanwhile, someone who cant afford to pay for his car's repairs shows up at your mechanic's door, and he fixes their car for free as required by law, and just adds the cost on to your repair because you can afford it?
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:20 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:Have you ever had a car repair garage not tell you the cost?
You ever try to shop around for an emergency appendectomy?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:22 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
You ever have your car break down, and have the towtruck company refuse to tell you how much it would charge to haul it to your mechanic?
No, I handle that shite myself.
Ever handle an appendectomy by yourself?
LINK ]
It's not as easy as it looks.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:24 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:If you had no intention to discuss this topic intelligently, why even post in the thread?
Ever handle an appendectomy by yourself?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:24 pm to Bass Tiger
On the first one, consider allergy testing.
I had sinus issues which turned out to be allergies to three things in the local environment. I now get shots for it weekly which control allergies and limit the number and severity of any sinus infections I get.
Edit - and apparently that had already been addressed, done, and dismissed as not an issue.
On your wife’s knee, that’s all too familiar for me.
I tore a meniscus in mine years ago. They knew it was that because of the amount of fluid and it being clear rather than bloody, so they didn’t investigate much further. They referred me for physical therapy and some anti-inflammitories.
After months of rehabbing it and not being able to straighten it out, we got them to do an MRI. Turns out it was a horseshoe year obstructing the joint and was something that REQUIRED surgery to fix. So I spent months rehabbing something that couldn’t be rehabbed, fricked up my other knee through favoring the bad one, and still ended up with surgery.
I had sinus issues which turned out to be allergies to three things in the local environment. I now get shots for it weekly which control allergies and limit the number and severity of any sinus infections I get.
Edit - and apparently that had already been addressed, done, and dismissed as not an issue.
On your wife’s knee, that’s all too familiar for me.
I tore a meniscus in mine years ago. They knew it was that because of the amount of fluid and it being clear rather than bloody, so they didn’t investigate much further. They referred me for physical therapy and some anti-inflammitories.
After months of rehabbing it and not being able to straighten it out, we got them to do an MRI. Turns out it was a horseshoe year obstructing the joint and was something that REQUIRED surgery to fix. So I spent months rehabbing something that couldn’t be rehabbed, fricked up my other knee through favoring the bad one, and still ended up with surgery.
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 12:27 pm
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