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Started By
Message
re: Much Needed Clarity Regarding the Pope and the Recent Document Regarding Blessings
Posted on 12/31/23 at 3:47 pm to Revelator
Posted on 12/31/23 at 3:47 pm to Revelator
quote:
And the RCC says if you don’t believe Mary was born without original sin, remained sinless and remained a virgin her entire life, this is a mortal sin and you are a heretic. How is that any different?
Now that you’ve lost every other argument you Finaly get to Mary.
The Protestant Alamo..
What took you so long?
2
Posted on 12/31/23 at 3:48 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Nicene Creed
Rich Mullins turned that into a song and it was awesome. Well, technically it was the Apostle's creed.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 3:49 pm to Guntoter1
quote:
Mary
quote:
The Protestant Alamo
I've never heard this, but damn my ribs hurt from laughing so hard.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 3:53 pm to Guntoter1
quote:
Now that you’ve lost every other argument you Finaly get to Mary. The Protestant Alamo.. What took you so long?
Just because a group of Catholics gather here and pat themselves on the back and all agree, it doesn’t make it truth.
And I’ve been bringing up from the beginning, Catholics insistence that belief in Marian dogmas are essential
for salvation.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 3:57 pm to Stitches
Hey Stiches do you believe that when Jesus told his disciples this;” Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” that this included things like; telling people Mary was sinless, telling people there is a pope and that he can be infallible, telling people that you have to confess to a priest to be absolved from sin?
Posted on 12/31/23 at 3:59 pm to Revelator
quote:
Catholics insistence that belief in Marian dogmas are essential
for salvation.
No, we simply believe that Jesus was not a mumbling idiotic liar when he gave His Church the ability to bind and loose in Matthew 18
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:03 pm to Revelator
quote:
Hey Stiches do you believe that when Jesus told his disciples this;” Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” that this included things like; telling people Mary was sinless, telling people there is a pope and that he can be infallible, telling people that you have to confess to a priest to be absolved from sin?
Do you think he told them to teach that a collection of books which wouldn't begin to be written for another 16 years was to be their only authority?
Or that their immediate successors would fall into apostacy, and the church would be lost for 1500+ years, until a group of men who didn't agree on much restored it in 40,000 different forms?
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:05 pm to Stitches
quote:
Stitches
You didn't answer his question. You simply asked him another question.
And Matthew 18 is referring specifically to church discipline and ONLY to the 12 disciples. Not others.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:06 pm to Revelator
quote:
do you believe that when Jesus told his disciples this;” Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” that this included things like; telling people Mary was sinless, telling people there is a pope and that he can be infallible, telling people that you have to confess to a priest to be absolved from sin?
I happen to believe Christ gave His disciples the power to do all of that when He created a Church in Matthew 16 and gave his Apostles the authority to bind and loose doctrine in Matthew 18.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:07 pm to Stitches
quote:
Do you think he told them to teach that a collection of books which wouldn't begin to be written for another 16 years was to be their only authority?
His words ended up in that book and it says the writers were inspired by the Holy Ghost to write what they wrote. Do you dispute this?
And please answer my question from my previous post.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:08 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
gave his Apostles the authority to bind and loose doctrine in Matthew 18.
What exactly do you take this to mean? In Matthew 18. I think you'd of better been served by using Matthew 16:19, but that's just me.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:10 pm to Revelator
quote:
And please answer my question from my previous post.
I will once you address the question I've tried getting you to respond to for 3 days now. I'll paste it below for your convenience.
Show me where scripture shows the "shift" from Scripture + Tradition to only the written Scripture as our ultimate authority.
You admitted that oral preaching (tradition) came first, followed by the written word, in a different thread.
If the paradigm of Tradition + Scripture supposedly shifted to Scripture Alone, Scripture would need to show this happening.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:13 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
What exactly do you take this to mean? In Matthew 18. I think you'd of better been served by using Matthew 16:19, but that's just me.
Matthew 16 establishes a Church and gives Peter preeminent authority over it. However, Matthew 18 is almost equally as important because it establishes the Apostles as the original bishops in communion with what would become the papacy under Peter. The bishops, together with the pope, have the authority to bind and loose doctrine as their authority originates from Christ through the Apostles.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:14 pm to Stitches
quote:
I will once you address the question
Just for kicks and giggles, go ahead and answer his question. I'm curious.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:17 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The bishops, together with the pope, have the authority to bind and loose doctrine as their authority originates from Christ through the Apostles.
So MORE than the 12 Apostles? This ability to bind and loose gets passed down, sort of like a birthright or a cherished item one would pass down from generation to generation? The current pope has the same authority to bind and loose in heaven? As in... in Matthew 18 if Peter or one of the other apostles removed someone as a final resort from the body of believers because they were unrepentant, then Heaven would recognize that decision and that person wouldn't be granted access into heaven. As I understand it. Are you saying the Pope and Bishops have the same authority today? Or am I misunderstanding?
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:17 pm to Stitches
quote:
Show me where scripture shows the "shift" from Scripture + Tradition to only the written Scripture as our ultimate authority. You admitted that oral preaching (tradition) came first, followed by the written word, in a different thread. If the paradigm of Tradition + Scripture supposedly shifted to Scripture Alone, Scripture would need to show this happening.
I’ve answered this question before. The oral traditions that you speak of were the teachings the disciples learned directly from Jesus. These later were written down by the disciples or transcribed, and these teachings eventually ended up in the Bible. It’s is wholly illogical to think there are some mystical oral traditions that didn’t end up in the Bible that somehow contradict what the disciples tell us in that book.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:19 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The bishops, together with the pope, have the authority to bind and loose doctrine as their authority originates from Christ through the Apostles.
If you read the passage, Jesus says that he has all authority in heaven and on earth.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:25 pm to CatholicLSUDude
No clarity needed.....
He’s a Fascist and a hypocritical socialist.
How many illegal aliens is the Vactican providing for?
He could actually be developing into the anti-Christ Revelation speaks about.
He’s a Fascist and a hypocritical socialist.
How many illegal aliens is the Vactican providing for?
He could actually be developing into the anti-Christ Revelation speaks about.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:27 pm to Revelator
quote:
Jesus says that he has all authority in heaven and on earth.
Amen. He's 100% right about that. However, Christ knew that He was not going to be here on earth for the foreseeable future and thus established a Church with fallible men in charge who, guided by the Holy Spirit, could bind and loose doctrine as the Church grew and evolved. The Council of Jerusalem from the Acts of the Apostles is the perfect example of the Church using this newfound authority given to them by Christ.
As has been brought up earlier, the Judaizers had sacred scripture on their side when they were calling for gentile converts to the faith to be circumcised. Paul was 100% going against the scriptures when he was telling these Jewish Christians that circumcision was not required to enter into the New Covenant.
There was obvious disagreement within the Church so a council was convened in Jerusalem about the year AD 49 to settle the matter. Peter, using the preeminent authority Christ granted him in Matthew 16, settled the matter and decided that circumcision was not required for gentile converts. James articulated Peter's decision into coherent doctrine and that was it; the matter was settled.
A Protestant Christian in AD 49 would have undoubtedly sided with the Judaizers in this particular debate because they would have appealed to the superiority of Sacred Scripture and not the authority of the Church that Christ founded.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:35 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
A Protestant Christian in AD 49 would have undoubtedly sided with the Judaizers in this particular debate because they would have appealed to the superiority of Sacred Scripture and not the authority of the Church that Christ founded.
This makes no sense. First off, the people wanting to make new converts get circumcised were the Jewish believers and not the Gentiles.
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