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Started By
Message
re: Much Needed Clarity Regarding the Pope and the Recent Document Regarding Blessings
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:41 pm to MemphisGuy
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:41 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Unless your Eucharist is somehow different from my communion or Lord's Supper...
It is. Yours is taken symbolically. In the Catholic mass the priest offers the hosts up to heaven, and in a ceremony called Transubstantiation, it actually becomes the physical body of Christ and the wine becomes his actual blood.
1
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:43 pm to Revelator
quote:
First off, the people wanting to make new converts get circumcised were the Jewish believers and not the Gentiles.
That's what I said. Don't try to dodge the issue here. Protestant Christians, appealing to Sola Scriptura, would have sided with the Jewish Christians when it came to circumcising Gentile converts. I'm saying that Protestants would have sided AGAINST Peter and Paul.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:47 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
That's what I said. Don't try to dodge the issue here. Protestant Christians, appealing to Sola Scriptura, would have sided with the Jewish Christians when it came to circumcising Gentile converts.
No they wouldn’t. This was a practice of the Jews and not Gentiles. Protestants are Gentiles not Jews. Why would they embrace a practice they never had before?
quote:
Peter and Paul.
Now you are just being goofy.
Circumcision has nothing to do with salvation anyway so it’s moot.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:52 pm to Revelator
quote:
Protestants are Gentiles not Jews. Why would they embrace a practice they never had before?
Because Scripture commanded it of believers to be circumcised.
quote:
Circumcision has nothing to do with salvation anyway so it’s moot.
So moot that the entire Church gathered in Jerusalem to address it.
The only reason you believe it has nothing to do with salvation in 2023 is because the Church decided in 49 that it had nothing to do with salvation.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:56 pm to Revelator
quote:
In the Catholic mass the priest offers the hosts up to heaven, and in a ceremony called Transubstantiation, it actually becomes the physical body of Christ and the wine becomes his actual blood.
Okayyyy... It's not literal... it's in remembrance of...
transubstantiation is almost... creepy.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:57 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The only reason you believe it has nothing to do with salvation in 2023 is because the Church decided in 49 that it had nothing to do with salvation.
Okay... and... were not the apostles guided by the Holy Spirit??
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 4:57 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
So moot that the entire Church gathered in Jerusalem to address it.
I’m not arguing that the church had councils to discuss religious matters. I just don’t believe that the early church was the RCC.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:03 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Okayyyy... It's not literal... it's in remembrance of...
From John 6:
quote:
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
From 1 Corinthians 10:
quote:
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?
From 1 Corinthians 11:
quote:
Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord
From the Didache (late first century Christian writing):
quote:
Let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist except those baptised into the name of the Lord; for, as regards this, the Lord has said, 'Do not give what is holy to dogs. '
From the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch (AD 37- AD 107):
quote:
“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes”
St. Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of the Apostle John. The man heard the gospel straight from the man who wrote the Gospel of John.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:04 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Okay... and... were not the apostles guided by the Holy Spirit??
They were indeed.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:06 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Okayyyy... It's not literal... it's in remembrance of...
transubstantiation is almost... creepy.
It's not exactly as rev says
Yes we are receiving his body and blood, it is literally his body and blood. However it still looks and tastes like bread and wine. It's a mystery how what looks like ordinary bread and wine is actually God himself!
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:07 pm to Revelator
quote:
I just don’t believe that the early church was the RCC.
So I suppose I have just one question for you then:
When was the Roman Catholic Church founded and by whom?
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:09 pm to RollTide1987
It's STILL a representation of, not the actual flesh and blood. In order for it to be the actual flesh and blood, the Priest would have to have the authority to call Jesus out of heaven, Jesus would have to obey him and then Jesus would have to be sacrificed time after time after time after time.
Hebrews 7:27
Once sacrifice was and is still all that was required.
Again.... a representation or remembrance of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross for us, not actually Christ himself. That's nearly blasphemous.
Hebrews 7:27
quote:
He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.
Once sacrifice was and is still all that was required.
Again.... a representation or remembrance of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross for us, not actually Christ himself. That's nearly blasphemous.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:10 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
When was the Roman Catholic Church founded and by whom?
A.D. 600 Pope Gregory the Great
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:12 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
A.D. 600 Pope Gregory the Great
never heard this one before. Got evidence?
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:14 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
A.D. 600 Pope Gregory the Great
Okay, but here is what St. Augustine says in his masterpiece Confessions:
quote:
I determined therefore so long to be a Catechumen in the Catholic Church, to which I had been commended by my parents, till something certain should dawn upon me, whither I might steer my course.
St. Augustine lived from AD 354-AD 430.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:15 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
never heard this one before. Got evidence?
quote:
GODFREY: Luther and Melanchthon said that the Roman Catholic Church began around 600 with Pope Gregory the Great. They called him “the Pied Piper leading the church astray.”
From RC Sprouls site
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:16 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
A.D. 600 Pope Gregory the Great
Somebody better tell saint peter the first bishop of rome !
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:18 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
Somebody better tell saint peter the first bishop of rome !
I didn't say it was THE answer... but it IS an answer that is out there. You may define "out there" however you wish.
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:20 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
When was the Roman Catholic Church founded and by whom?
Much later. Your believe that Peter was the first Pope and you believe he passed this down to another Pope and so on until the present. I don’t.
And for when it was officially founded, you tell me.
This post was edited on 12/31/23 at 5:22 pm
Posted on 12/31/23 at 5:20 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
It's STILL a representation of, not the actual flesh and blood.
There is nothing in early Christendom that establishes this. The first recording we have of anyone denying the Real Presence in the Eucharist was Berengar of Tours in the 11th century.
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