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re: Michigan AG Dana Nessel charges 16 ‘alternate Trump electors’ with 8 felony counts each
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:00 am to cajunangelle
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:00 am to cajunangelle
quote:
In the mean time an 82 year old faces 80 years in prison.
FAFO
1
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:00 am to cajunangelle
It's a shame but it appears national (and local) democrats are on a tear to destroy political opponents. Far worse than that - republicans appear to be doing NOTHING to dissuade them.
If the people you vote for won't fight for you, stop voting for them.
If the people you vote for won't fight for you, stop voting for them.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:02 am to Y.A. Tittle
It is going to be VERY difficult to get around the fraud-based claims. They created fraudulent documents claiming to have a legal status with no authority granting them that status. They attempted to use these fraudulent documents to have others rely upon them.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Criticizing the charlatans and MAGA personalities who convinced a bunch of elderly people to commit crimes? Yes.
I feel bad for them. But you and I don’t see the trajectory of our country from the same perspective.
You’ll be telling us the legal case against people who are simply trying to deal with a society and culture that is being purposefully destroyed (in this case and every other case). You’re pot-committed to the system for now.
And the sophistry that we call “law” is facilitating the destruction of the system. Probably in large part because our law schools have been wholly captured by post-postmodernism.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:02 am to CreoleTigerEsq
Coming from a lawyer...I'll take your "unbiased " opinion under advisement.
GTFO
GTFO
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:03 am to SlowFlowPro
And you too, Slowflowhomeaux
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:04 am to BamaAtl
quote:
FAFO
Yes. Just like Michael Brown.
It’s not at all surprising that you feel an antipathy to these people while feeling an affinity for human piles of shite who contribute nothing to society.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:04 am to the808bass
quote:
You’ll be telling us the legal case against people who are simply trying to deal with a society and culture that is being purposefully destroyed (in this case and every other case). You’re pot-committed to the system for now.
I live in reality, if that's what you're asking.
What I want and what reality is, are 2 different things. It's a simple distinction that people on this board constantly get confused.
quote:
Probably in large part because our law schools have been wholly captured by post-postmodernism.
What?
This is a pretty straightforward case of fraud. This isn't novel and the concept has existed since at least Babylon.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It is going to be VERY difficult to get around the fraud-based claims.
I don't really think so. These people were clearly led astray by the pack of grifters that descended post-2020. It is going to be tough to show that they knew what they were doing was illegal or fraudulent. As others have posted, there were articles, lawyers, and all kinds of "credible" people pushing this stupid course of action.
Being gullible and ignorant doesn't equate to fraud, IMO.
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 11:07 am
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:07 am to Indefatigable
quote:
It is going to be tough to show that they knew what they were doing was illegal or fraudulent.
I believe they filed a "certified" list claiming they were electors AND one claiming they were alternative electors.
They also will have to explain under what authority they believed they had this status.
quote:
Being gullible and ignorant doesn't equate to fraud, IMO.
I think you're approaching the Uncle Leo defense.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:09 am to cajunangelle
Election Tampering straight up. Cloaked as ‘justice’. Just what us Bible Thumpers have expected for a long time. Play with fire and get burned. Applies to the Dems Fascist as well as the loudmouths on this Forum. Ha. 99 degrees today; wonder if Gitmo is hotter? Hell sure is.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:09 am to BugAC
quote:
What is the "false electors scheme"? I'm not up to date on this story.
They are saying dispite the many examples of this occurring in the past, it is now illegal to have alternate electors on stand-by while challenges in the courts are being pursued because reasons.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:09 am to Indefatigable
quote:
It is going to be tough to show that they knew what they were doing was illegal or fraudulent.
Whether they had knowledge that what they were doing was illegal is irrelevant within criminal law. Ignorance of the law is never a defense in criminal law.
Now, whether they were aware that what they were doing is fraudulent may be a higher hurdle to climb, because proving fraud requires proving intent.
Edit: I just reviewed, again, what felony accounts they were charged with, and none of them are listed as fraud, but conspiracy charges related to forgery.
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 11:15 am
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I believe they filed a "certified" list claiming they were electors AND one claiming they were alternative electors.
They also will have to explain under what authority they believed they had this status.
I don't really see a functional difference between the two. Its all fake either way without actual certification by the State.
quote:
I think you're approaching the Uncle Leo defense.
That is precisely what I would do if I was their counsel....
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:11 am to CreoleTigerEsq
"Whether they had knowledge that what they were doing was illegal is irrelevant within criminal law. Ignorance of the law is never a defense in criminal law."
James Comey says "hold my White Russian."
James Comey says "hold my White Russian."
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I live in reality, if that's what you're asking.
Reality is a ridiculous appellation here. It’s unsurprising that you see the law as interpreted by sophists to be “reality.” Sophists have a hard time realizing they’re sophists.
quote:
This is a pretty straightforward case of fraud. This isn't novel and the concept has existed since at least Babylon.
Sure. In context, it’s a comedy noir disguised a legal action.
We could revisit the absolute nonsensical certification of Michigan’s votes and none of that would bother you. Cuz “the law.” See “sophistry” above.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:12 am to CreoleTigerEsq
quote:
Whether they had knowledge that what they were doing was illegal is irrelevant within criminal law. Ignorance of the law is never a defense in criminal law.
I took Crim 1L year too, broseph. But a legitimate belief that what they were doing was proper or legal will certainly undermine the case for fraud.
quote:
I just reviewed, again, what felony accounts they were charged with, and none of them are listed as fraud, but conspiracy charges related to forgery.
I suppose we can dispense with the fraud discussion then. But intent/knowledge obviously plays just as large a part in proving conspiracy.
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 11:15 am
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:13 am to cajunangelle
Conspiracy to Commit Uttering and Publishing? Throw them under the jail
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:14 am to McChowder
quote:
They are saying dispite the many examples of this occurring in the past, it is now illegal to have alternate electors on stand-by while challenges in the courts are being pursued because reasons.
Why Hawaii in 1960 isn't the same as 2020
quote:
Charlie Gerow, a veteran Pennsylvania Republican strategist who signed one of the pro-Trump elector certificates, said he and several other electors who were lawyers devised the strategy to include a caveat.
“We put in the contingent language quite bluntly because I and several others in the room who were lawyers insisted upon it,” said Gerow, who is currently running for governor. “We inserted that language specifically to avoid some of the charges that are coming from the left.”
THAT is legal. If those people get charged, then it's a major issue.
quote:
When Nixon, like Mike Pence, presided over the Electoral College counting session on Jan. 6, 1961, he acknowledged receiving all three sets of certificates: the GOP slate, the uncertified Democratic slate and the certified Democratic slate.
He then agreed that the newest one — the Democrats certified by Gov. William Quinn — should be counted, even though they were certified weeks after the required meeting of the Electoral College. Nixon added a caveat of his own: His decision should not be seen as a precedent for the future.
That newest slate “properly and legally portrays the facts with respect to the electors chosen by the people of Hawaii,” Nixon said.
One crucial feature of the 1960 episode is that a state court weighed in on Jan. 4, 1961, two days before Nixon oversaw the electoral vote count.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:16 am to the808bass
quote:
It’s unsurprising that you see the law as interpreted by sophists to be “reality.”
I mean violate "the law as interpreted by 'sophists" and see what happens. Real men with real guns show up eventually.
quote:
Sophists have a hard time realizing they’re sophists.
quote:
We could revisit the absolute nonsensical certification of Michigan’s votes and none of that would bother you. Cuz “the law.” See “sophistry” above.
You seem to be having a bad day today. Was your breakfast cold or something?
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