- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Memo to all Christians who are struggling with the decision to vote for Trump
Posted on 10/20/24 at 3:16 am to Tunasntigers92
Posted on 10/20/24 at 3:16 am to Tunasntigers92
quote:Perhaps you should read up a little more about what Calvinism actually teaches before you make a string of posts telling the world what it doesn’t actually teach
I have nothing more to say other than that protestantism is a slap in the face of Christ and that I hope you find salvation through either Catholicism or Orthodoxy.
Also, a real slap to the face of Christ is teaching that His once-for-all sacrifice for sin on the cross wasn’t enough to save sinners, but we must add our own meritorious works to that of His to be saved.
1
Posted on 10/20/24 at 3:20 am to FooManChoo
It's never too late to repent
Posted on 10/20/24 at 3:32 am to Tunasntigers92
quote:Thats true. I hope you put your faith in Jesus Christ alone for your salvation. Only He can pay the debt that sin owes
It's never too late to repent
Posted on 10/20/24 at 3:37 am to FooManChoo
Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ will forgive you for being a blasphemous protestant, but I won't, luckily it's only the former that matters.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 8:10 am to Tunasntigers92
quote:
Calvinism denies that each individual is responsible and accountable for their own sins committed in their own life, and will not be damned for the sins of anyone else, as the Bible teaches
It’s funny to me that most Calvinists end up quoting more Calvin than Jesus.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 8:37 am to Bass Tiger
I doubt very many real Christians grapple with this. kamale is an abortionist, and transexualist , enough said.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 8:58 am to jeffsdad
quote:
I doubt very many real Christians grapple with this. kamale is an abortionist, and transexualist , enough said.
Whether you're a Christian or a conservative patriot who's concerned about the direction the Cultural Marxists are taking the nation, there's a very clear and easy decision to make in the upcoming election.
1) Trump = an opportunity to begin the process moving the political bent of the nation back towards the middle where some semblance of sanity can be found.
2) Kackles = the continuation of fundamentally transforming America into a Cultural Marxist dystopian nightmare.
ULTRA EXTREME MAGA.........TRUMP/VANCE 2024!!!!
Posted on 10/20/24 at 9:05 am to winkchance
quote:
Presbyterians absolutely use wine. They can choose not to offer it to the entire body of the church but they absolutely use wine.
That’s not true. My wife is Presbyterian (I’m Catholic), and when we go to her church it’s always grape juice
Posted on 10/20/24 at 9:26 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Calvin didn’t teach that the law doesn’t matter once you are saved. He taught that the law was useful in several ways and that Christians were still required to keep the moral law of God
I think the point just keeps going right past you. It does not matter what Calvin taught, it matters how it was applied. Thats why the originator of the Reformation (Martin Luther) was lukewarm to him, and never cared to meet him during the time when both were leading the Reformed movement. Partly due to his believe in predestination. You cant tell humans that they are guaranteed salvation at birth, except you have to be born again. Plus, you have to follow laws that you dont agree with. Even though breaking them, wont keep you from Heaven
To give merit to any theology, you must apply it to "original sin". Adam was at one time the only human. Adam therefore had to have been "chosen" for salvation. Yet, when Eve (BTW made from Adam) was successful in leading him astray, BOTH were kicked out the garden
So for Calvins application of scripture to be valid, Adam would have never been removed from Eden, "the paradise of God". Because he was saved from the foundation of the world, right?
Wrong. God makes it clear no man is capable of a sinless life*, therefore, you have to be born again**. Sooooo, stay with me here, if you have to be born again, you were NEVER born into salvation to begin with. Never ever
quote:
* But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
quote:
** Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Your birth does not predetermine your salvation. Your rebirth does. Calvins theory gives sinful man a false belief that they were predestined to be with God, when Christ clearly said they arent. Only through rebirth, is salvation given
You have to be capable of separating birth of water (natural, water breaking), and birth of spirit (born again)
quote:
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
And to deny that every human has the promise of salvation is to call Christ a liar. How can he state the following, knowing that it isnt true?
quote:
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
We are ALL able to come to repentance or not. And we are ALL promised eternal life or not. Those are his words. Not John Calvins
Posted on 10/20/24 at 9:33 am to JiminyCricket
quote:I’m a Calvinist and yet the only times I quote him or talk about him is in response to people who don’t like him.
It’s funny to me that most Calvinists end up quoting more Calvin than Jesus.
Because his teachings were from the Bible, I can teach Calvinism all day long just by quoting Scripture, which I do regularly.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 10:13 am to Perfect Circle
Imagine spending one's free time actively trying to discourage people from having hope for a future. There are some deep wounds in this guy's life story for sure.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 1:17 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
Imagine spending one's free time actively trying to discourage people from having hope for a future. There are some deep wounds in this guy's life story for sure.
There's anger there; running down Christians like they're his enemy. Anger at something he doesn't believe in.
Posted on 10/20/24 at 1:41 pm to Perfect Circle
Yup. I’d venture a guess at some sort of church hurt in his past. To spend time evangelizing to nothing is pretty wild if you don’t have an axe to grind.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 12:34 pm to RobbBobb
quote:It actually does matter what was taught. A lot. Anyone can claim inspiration from someone else in their false application, which is why going back to the teaching is actually important.
I think the point just keeps going right past you. It does not matter what Calvin taught, it matters how it was applied.
quote:Martin Luther had a similar view of predestination as Calvin. Luther wrote the famous book "Bondage of the Will" which speaks to man's total depravity and reliance on God's grace alone for salvation. Predestination was an important part of God's grace, as if the elect were not chosen by God's grace alone, then the "dead" sinner (as Luther rightfully believed) would never be able to respond and be saved.
Thats why the originator of the Reformation (Martin Luther) was lukewarm to him, and never cared to meet him during the time when both were leading the Reformed movement. Partly due to his believe in predestination.
Luther was "lukewarm" to Calvin because he was focused on Catholics, Anabaptists, and European Jews in his later years when Calvin was becoming more influential. There isn't much written by Luther about Calvin but they certainly held a disagreement on the nature of the Eucharist. Aside from that, Calvin was greatly influenced by Luther.
quote:I have no idea where you've gotten this from. Calvinists don't tell people that they are guaranteed salvation at birth because no one knows who is saved except God. What we speak of is that for those who are saved (which, again, we don't know), it is because God chose them to be saved from before they were born, and by His grace saves those people in time through the means He uses, namely the regenerating work of His Spirit through the preaching of the gospel.
You cant tell humans that they are guaranteed salvation at birth, except you have to be born again. Plus, you have to follow laws that you dont agree with. Even though breaking them, wont keep you from Heaven
Also, the Bible teaches that we obey the commands of Christ because He didn't save us to leave us just the way we are, but He wants us to be conformed to Himself in righteousness through the killing of sin in our bodies through the grace of sanctification. Sanctification and justification are two related but different things.
Based on how you keep describing this, I think you are still confused about what the Bible teaches on this.
quote:OK, you are really confused.
To give merit to any theology, you must apply it to "original sin". Adam was at one time the only human. Adam therefore had to have been "chosen" for salvation. Yet, when Eve (BTW made from Adam) was successful in leading him astray, BOTH were kicked out the garden
So for Calvins application of scripture to be valid, Adam would have never been removed from Eden, "the paradise of God". Because he was saved from the foundation of the world, right?
Adam being kicked out of Eden was not him losing salvation of some kind. He was kicked out of paradise as a punishment for his sin. His salvation (in Heaven) was still determined before Adam ever sinned, because God foreordained that Adam would fall and would require a covering for forgiveness of his sins so that he could have that relationship with God restored. Adam's eternal salvation has nothing to do with the temporal punishment of being expelled from earthly paradise.
quote:I never claimed that any person is born "saved". Salvation/Justification happens at a moment in time when the death of Christ and His payment of sin is applied to the sinner as that sinner receives it by faith.
Wrong. God makes it clear no man is capable of a sinless life*, therefore, you have to be born again**. Sooooo, stay with me here, if you have to be born again, you were NEVER born into salvation to begin with. Never ever
quote:You are still confused about this. Physical birth doesn't save anyone. Only Christ saves, and He saves people by granting them faith to receive His work for them.
Your birth does not predetermine your salvation. Your rebirth does. Calvins theory gives sinful man a false belief that they were predestined to be with God, when Christ clearly said they arent. Only through rebirth, is salvation given
You have to be capable of separating birth of water (natural, water breaking), and birth of spirit (born again)
You don't understand what Calvin taught and you're using a lot of words to show that you don't understand it.
quote:I'm not calling Christ a liar. I'm recognizing the tension in the text where Jesus said that He died for His sheep, and that all who are saved will not be lost.
And to deny that every human has the promise of salvation is to call Christ a liar. How can he state the following, knowing that it isnt true?
quote:quote:
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
We are ALL able to come to repentance or not. And we are ALL promised eternal life or not. Those are his words. Not John Calvins
Jesus didn't promise eternal life to everyone. He promised eternal life to all who believe in Him by faith. The offer is freely given to all people, yet not all people are capable of accepting that offer. Christians preach the gospel to all people, offering salvation to everyone who believes that Jesus died for them, and those who believe show that they were God's elect while those who do not (those who die in unbelief) show that they were not one of God's elect.
This post was edited on 10/21/24 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 10/21/24 at 4:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
and those who believe show that they were God's elect while those who do not
Once again, the point escapes you
Now do the thief on the cross. He is the ultimate example of how Calvinism fails. He lived an entire life of preying on others, but because he was born predestined he gets off scot-free from destroying other lives. Simply because he was guaranteed. His decision, and that of the other thief was a meaningless addition to the NT because both had no choice in the matter. and were forced to accept their predetermined fates
* This cannot be denied, because Christ told him he would live in paradise with him
* And the entire repentance, baptism, holy spirit thing was still days away from being part of salvation
So the one thief just waltzed in. Not having shown any of the things youre looking for in Trump. Plus, he never repented, nor was baptized. Yet still made it. The reverse is also problematic for Calvin. Not being predestined. A Charles Manson/Hilter/Stalin who knows beyond a shadow of doubt that he is not predestined, becomes a monster to those who are. Because Calvin convinced him there is no salvation for him in any way. And he wants to take out as many Calvins as he can, Because he never had that option
So the teaching of Calvinism, is essentially a slap in the face of the agony that Christ went thru in order to PURCHASE our salvation. You get what a purchase is, right? Obtaining something (your salvation) with something else that is deemed valuable, that has worth (the blood of Christ)
quote:
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Your salvation was purchased, not predestined. Any man can accept that free gift. Because what was the purpose of the temptation, if Satan knew Christ was predestined? The sole purpose was to stop the ultimate sacrifice, and deny Gods plan for salvation for mankind. Its pretty obvious that Satan would know if predestination was a thing or not, since he was with the creator early on
Posted on 10/21/24 at 4:36 pm to RobbBobb
Every traditional Christian (not the modern Woke/progressive pseudo Christian) should be voting against Harris because Team Harris has repeatedly inferred their goal is to reduce the likelihood of devout Christians getting any significant influence in DC Uniparty politics.
I've heard many Gaslight Media propagandists frame the upcoming election as "Their Dimocrazy" vs Christian Nationalism. I'm not sure why so many Christians are still struggling to properly understand this battle between Cultural Marxism and Christianity......, those on the left have made it abundantly clear it's secularism/agnosticism/atheism vs Christians.
I've heard many Gaslight Media propagandists frame the upcoming election as "Their Dimocrazy" vs Christian Nationalism. I'm not sure why so many Christians are still struggling to properly understand this battle between Cultural Marxism and Christianity......, those on the left have made it abundantly clear it's secularism/agnosticism/atheism vs Christians.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 5:00 pm to Bass Tiger
If some is struggling with their choice then they are not a real Christian. The choice is simple one person is a flawed person who makes mistakes and can be rude and crude at times. The other person supports murdering babies and supports sick perverts who mutilate their own sexuality.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 5:02 pm to Bass Tiger
Jesus is Lord no matter what rally you are at Kamala.
Posted on 10/21/24 at 5:19 pm to RobbBobb
quote:This is not the teaching of Calvinism. You may have a perverted view of it, but this isn't the view. Calvinism is not fatalism where nothing matters and things just happen. God is both the God of means as well as ends, and He uses the preaching of the gospel through weak men to save weak men by His Spirit. Those who believe really do believe; they are not puppets and God isn't believing in Himself.
Now do the thief on the cross. He is the ultimate example of how Calvinism fails. He lived an entire life of preying on others, but because he was born predestined he gets off scot-free from destroying other lives. Simply because he was guaranteed. His decision, and that of the other thief was a meaningless addition to the NT because both had no choice in the matter. and were forced to accept their predetermined fates
The thief on the cross is the perfect example of grace and mercy. He is proof that no one is too far gone. Saul/Paul was persecuting Christians and participating in their martyrdom and yet he was saved by God's merciful grace. Those who think they are too sinful, Jesus says that His burden is light. Want to talk about fatalism? Let's take what you're describing: a person lives the first half of their life performing evil, stealing from others, living as part of a gang that rapes and murders. This person is convicted of his sin in his 30's, leaves the gang life, and seeks forgiveness through faith in Christ and repentance of his sin as Jesus commands. If things worked the way you are describing, this man could not be saved because he was too sinful!
The true issue here is that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. All deserve damnation because to break one law is to break them all. To sin once is to owe an infinite debt that no one can repay on their own. That's precisely why Jesus, the Son of God, had to become a man and take on the requirements of the law. It's precisely why He had to die a death on the cross for us, because He paid the debt that we could not pay ourselves as our representative. That is grace, and you rob God of His grace by making salvation merit-based, as if anyone could ever do enough to earn salvation.
The thief had a choice, and God was gracious to save him by giving him a new heart that not only could believe, but wanted to believe. He chose to believe in Christ through the power of the Spirit working in him, enabling him to take and hold on to eternal life in Jesus Christ.
quote:The record shows that the thief was saved because Jesus confirmed it with His supernatural insight. I don't have such insight about anyone, including Donald Trump. He may be saved for all I know, but I'm not voting on his heart but on the fruits he produces (or lack thereof). I'm not judging his soul. I'm judging whether or not I can have him represent me as the leader of this country.
So the one thief just waltzed in. Not having shown any of the things youre looking for in Trump.
quote:Actually it seems as though he did repent, as repentance is a fruit of regeneration. It doesn't have to say he repented because if God saved him, then it means God regenerated him and that would come with a new hatred of sin and a desire for righteousness.
Plus, he never repented, nor was baptized. Yet still made it.
He also didn't need to be baptized because baptism doesn't save anyone, because salvation is by grace, not of works. Good works flow from salvation, they don't merit salvation. And baptism is a sign and seal of union with Christ, not the means by which someone is brought into union with Him.
quote:How can someone know for sure that they are not predestined? Calvin didn't teach that you can know for certain that you are not predestined because predestination is an act of God, not of man, and it's part of His secret will that we do not know of. In fact, God can save someone at the last moment, so as long as there is breath, there is hope of salvation. No where would a Charles Manson be able to blame Calvin for his murderous rampage because, even if he were reprobate and not elect of God, he is still accountable to God for his actions and will be judged for them. His time in Hell will be worse by knowingly sinning against God than by seeking to obey Him even in unbelief.
The reverse is also problematic for Calvin. Not being predestined. A Charles Manson/Hilter/Stalin who knows beyond a shadow of doubt that he is not predestined, becomes a monster to those who are. Because Calvin convinced him there is no salvation for him in any way. And he wants to take out as many Calvins as he can, Because he never had that option
But again, no one can say they were not responsible for their sin.
quote:Calvinism gives glory to God alone for being the only one who has saved us. Synergism removes glory from God because it teaches that you cooperate with God in your own salvation. If you contribute anything to your salvation (other than your need for it), you can boast and take some credit. Whatever credit you take for yourself, you take it away from God.
So the teaching of Calvinism, is essentially a slap in the face of the agony that Christ went thru in order to PURCHASE our salvation. You get what a purchase is, right? Obtaining something (your salvation) with something else that is deemed valuable, that has worth (the blood of Christ)
Your position also makes it possible for Christ to die for someone who won't be saved. It removes the power and efficacy of Jesus' death and makes it so that, at least in theory, that Jesus died in vain.
quote:This doesn't teach against Calvinism at all.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
quote:It was both. It was predestined to be purchased, and then it was purchased by Christ on the cross, and then the purchase was applied by the Spirit in regeneration, and the purchase was kept safe until glory.
Your salvation was purchased, not predestined.
quote:No, any man cannot. Only those who belong to Christ (chosen before the foundation of the world) will be given new wills to desire and accept that free gift. The natural man hates God and doesn't want anything to do with that gift.
Any man can accept that free gift.
quote:Of course Satan knows about predestination, however he still hates God and sought to thwart the plan of Christ. He played his role, not knowing exactly what Jesus had come to do, which is why he had Christ put to death by influencing Judas. If he had known that Christ's death would secure salvation for His people, Satan probably wouldn't have done what he did.
Because what was the purpose of the temptation, if Satan knew Christ was predestined? The sole purpose was to stop the ultimate sacrifice, and deny Gods plan for salvation for mankind. Its pretty obvious that Satan would know if predestination was a thing or not, since he was with the creator early on
"he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will" -Eph. 1:5
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" -Eph. 1:11
"for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place" -Acts 4:27-28
Posted on 10/21/24 at 5:41 pm to Bass Tiger
Trump is not a Christian. Real Christians should not support him.
Page 11 of 13
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News