re: Meet 22-year-old Elisjsha Dicken who took down the shooter last night

Should I just copy and paste my reply to the last time you asked me this question?

Your personal interpretation of that statute is only correct in a vacuum. I thought we already demonstrated why it's not necessarily correct when nuance and context are considered.

Let's approach this in a different manner. Every legal mind who has addressed the issue has concurred with my thoughts on this particular matter, and I haven't found a single instance of one who agrees with your interpretation. Well, unless you want to count Shannon Watts.

What do you know that they don't know? Or, perhaps more relevant, what do they know that you don't know?

Doesn't that interest you at all? Where do they go wrong?

Seems to me he can lift all the weight needed.

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Seems to me he can lift all the weight needed.

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God made us big
God made us small
God made Colt
to equalize us all.....

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What do you know that they don't know? Or, perhaps more relevant, what do they know that you don't know?

Doesn't that interest you at all? Where do they go wrong?

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What I have seen is people saying that it is not enforced. That may indeed be true. I do not live in Indiana, so I have no personal experience with law enforcement practices in that state.

I have not seen anyone saying that it is not ABLE to be enforced (enforceable). That is an ENTIRELY distinct question.

Honestly, if you have a link to someone saying the latter, I would ENJOY reading the underlying analysis, because the statute seems to me to be both clear and unambiguous. But I am not so pig-headed as to think that I cannot be wrong. There have DEFINITELY been times that someone showed me an analysis that just did not occur to me and that changed my mind.

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When the villains are afraid of what the victims are bringing then all this will stop.

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Unfortunately, that's the only way these things stop.

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I have not seen anyone saying that it is not ABLE to be enforced (enforceable).

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I've not made that argument.

I don't see why some DA couldn't find cause to bring charges.

But, that doesn't inherently imply that there was a crime committed.

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Again, you keep using the term “force of law.”

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Because responsible person who conceal carries, especially if they travel, understands what that phrase means in this context.

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Then please share. I am not being a smartass. I am interested in your understanding. A desire to understand different thoughtful viewpoints is one reason that I come here, and (current enmity aside) I do normally consider you to be reasonably-thoughtful.

Again, the best definition I have seen of “force of law” is something like “a rule that has been laid down for determining rights and legal obligations, which is recognized by the courts of justice.”

This is meant in a partially-joking, but partially-serious manner. I feel like the man who doesn't think he did anything wrong and asks the woman about the source of a problem, whose only response is "Oh, you KNOW what you did." (look of utter bafflement)

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In Illinois and probably a couple of other states where carry is a PITA, they can have a sign on their business that carries the force of law. The people who live up there have a shorthand for it; it's Title 47 or something. In those states a properly worded sign prohibiting firearms makes that place legally no different than a courtroom, bar or any other place where concealed carry is prohibited by statute regardless of your permit. You don't have to be trespassed; if a cop sees you in an establishment that has that formal sign you can be arrested on the spot

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That makes sense. When states started enacting concealed carry years ago, the statutes OFTEN included provisions for signage specific to concealed carry and with specific wording for the signs. That violation was INDEPENDENT of the generic "trespass" statutes. Texas enacted such a law back in the 1990s when CCP came into being. If the state in question has not expanded its carry provisions, those specific signage statutes may well remain in force.

At least in Texas, the legislative history shows that many thought that the existing trespass laws would be adequate to prevent CCP holders from entering a premises with a generic sign drafted by the property owner, but the response was that someone would ALWAYS challenge the adequacy of any such sign. So they drafted SPECIFIC "sign language" that no one could argue with.

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A sign like that in Florida is just a personal preference of the owner, and most businesses have them because insurance requires it

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This too makes sense, because the Florida criminal trespass statute does NOT include the same language as Indiana (or Texas), allowing a property owner to PREEMPTIVELY preclude access by sign. As such, a sign would NOT be effective to create a "criminal trespass."


I mean ZERO disrespect by the following. People tend to be familiar with the law of their own state and to subconsciously assume that the law is the same or similar elsewhere.

A mall may be privately owned, but it is a public place open to everyone. Malls have rules and they may define them by posting or publishing, but only thing they can do is ask you to leave for breaking a rule. It is not trespassing unless you are asked and refuse to leave and are arrested at that time.

During Covid, there probably was a posted mandatory mask rule for malls, they could still have one if they choose. If there was/is a mask rule in the mall and you refuse to wear a mask, they could and probably would ask you to leave. If you don't leave, they can call the police and have you removed. The police would determine if you should be arrested at that time. If they never asked you to leave, they could not have you charged later for trespassing because you weren't wearing a mask when you were in the mall. No DA is bringing trespassing charges against you in that scenario. Only option they have is to ban you from their mall.

Many malls employ local police and have them enforce their rules. At Lakeside mall in Metairie If a JPSD tells you to leave, you do or they can arrest you for trespassing.