re: Many Republicans just didn’t vote for the Republican candidates in Arizona

Why does it take 14 days to call an election when pre-2020, it took less than 24hrs.?

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Ask yourself, what would you consider proof?

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Things like -

1. Proof that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised by being told to go to another voting center and then not being able to vote. This is a claim, but there's nothing out there that suggests it's accurate. KL's own lawyer said this happened to a few hundred voters - that they were given the option of going to another voting center, but when they got to the second center they were told they couldn't vote because they already had, having checked in at the first center. So the debate isn't whether this disenfranchised voters, it's whether it's a few hundred or tens of thousands.

2. Proof, as in a detailed accounting, of what tabulators malfunctioned and where, and was any voting center left with no working tabulators, or even just one. Each voting center had multiple tabulators.

3. An accounting of wait times. I have no doubt that there were onerous wait times at certain centers at certain times. That's pretty normal, especially when everyone gets off of work ... lines form. The worse I've experienced is about 90 minutes. Is that voter suppression? Is 2 hours? 3? At what point does a long wait become voter suppression? And how many voters encountered that sort of wait, and how many gave up?

4. Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence? There's nothing illegal about tabulators malfunctioning, but if they malfunction because they were set up to, those responsible should be in prison.

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1. Proof that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised by being told to go to another voting center and then not being able to vote. This is a claim, but there's nothing out there that suggests it's accurate. KL's own lawyer said this happened to a few hundred voters - that they were given the option of going to another voting center, but when they got to the second center they were told they couldn't vote because they already had, having checked in at the first center. So the debate isn't whether this disenfranchised voters, it's whether it's a few hundred or tens of thousands. 2. Proof, as in a detailed accounting, of what tabulators malfunctioned and where, and was any voting center left with no working tabulators, or even just one. Each voting center had multiple tabulators. 3. An accounting of wait times. I have no doubt that there were onerous wait times at certain centers at certain times. That's pretty normal, especially when everyone gets off of work ... lines form. The worse I've experienced is about 90 minutes. Is that voter suppression? Is 2 hours? 3? At what point does a long wait become voter suppression? And how many voters encountered that sort of wait, and how many gave up? 4. Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence? There's nothing illegal about tabulators malfunctioning, but if they malfunction because they were set up to, those responsible should be in prison.

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All those words and all you had to say is that you think thousands of citizens are lying, they went thru the trouble of making fake videos with actors telling them they needed to go to another precinct to vote or to just trust them and leave their ballots in box 3….

Seems strange that you’d choose the word of corrupt govt officials over the citizens who are the victims here.

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Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence?

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Whether it was intentional or incompetence, citizens were victims of voter suppression and a new election needs to be held.

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1. Proof that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised by being told to go to another voting center and then not being able to vote. This is a claim, but there's nothing out there that suggests it's accurate. KL's own lawyer said this happened to a few hundred voters - that they were given the option of going to another voting center, but when they got to the second center they were told they couldn't vote because they already had, having checked in at the first center. So the debate isn't whether this disenfranchised voters, it's whether it's a few hundred or tens of thousands.

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I’m not sure how you could ever get definitive proof. There is no way to look at every claim or non-claim at this point and prove it either way.

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2. Proof, as in a detailed accounting, of what tabulators malfunctioned and where, and was any voting center left with no working tabulators, or even just one. Each voting center had multiple tabulators.

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Who if anyone is responsible for recording data on this? If the answer is no one your asking for documentation that doesn’t exist even if the claims are true.

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3. An accounting of wait times. I have no doubt that there were onerous wait times at certain centers at certain times. That's pretty normal, especially when everyone gets off of work ... lines form. The worse I've experienced is about 90 minutes. Is that voter suppression? Is 2 hours? 3? At what point does a long wait become voter suppression? And how many voters encountered that sort of wait, and how many gave up?

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You’re right that voter suppression in cases like this are a matter of opinion, but consider that 80% of Arizona voted by mail, you have to question long lines on Election Day as odd.

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4. Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence? There's nothing illegal about tabulators malfunctioning, but if they malfunction because they were set up to, those responsible should be in prison.

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I’m not sure how you would expect to prove tabulators were sabotaged for part of the day and later fixed days after the event.

This is the issue with the I need proof crowd and that proof needs to be smoking gun. We need to get passed this and look at statistics and anomalies. For example, chess.com will suspend your account for cheating, but how can they prove it? They just look at your moves and see if you’re are playing in a way that is statistically improbable. If you go to a casino and play a single number on the roulette table and hit 5 times in a row, they don’t need proof you were cheating because they know you are because statistics tell them so.

Ask yourself this, why does one side consistently argue for voting laws that weaken the strength of voter integrity rules? Then realize those same people are winning elections through mail in ballots with candidates who don’t campaign, yet are getting record turnout numbers. Statistics and common sense tells me they are cheating. I don’t need to see the smoking gun to know it’s happening.

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I’m not sure how you could ever get definitive proof. There is no way to look at every claim or non-claim at this point and prove it either way.

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This isn't true. You would be able to see how many voters checked in but didn't register a single vote.

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Who if anyone is responsible for recording data on this? If the answer is no one your asking for documentation that doesn’t exist even if the claims are true.

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It's known. It's been reported. We know how many tabulators malfunctioned. What we don't know is how many tabulators were in place, and whether any voting center had all 3 tabulators malfunction - meaning no ballots could be scanned, and for how long that was the case.

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You’re right that voter suppression in cases like this are a matter of opinion, but consider that 80% of Arizona voted by mail, you have to question long lines on Election Day as odd.

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I agree, which is why I'd be surprised if more than an hour wait was a real problem. Outside of after work, I can see the last 2 hours getting real busy. But to be clear about that, if you were in line at 7 pm, you got to vote no matter the wait.

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I’m not sure how you would expect to prove tabulators were sabotaged for part of the day and later fixed days after the event.

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Well, start by figuring out what the issues were, and then figure out why that issue happened/persisted.

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This is the issue with the I need proof crowd and that proof needs to be smoking gun. We need to get passed this and look at statistics and anomalies.

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I think you do both. I am good with statistics and anomalies providing notions and directions, but you need to be able to prove fraud. And you should be able to. Particularly with two years to prepare for this election after all that transpired in 2020.

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Ask yourself this, why does one side consistently argue for voting laws that weaken the strength of voter integrity rules?

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Preaching to the choir. I've posted on here what Tucker Carlson pointed out, that something like 75% of elections that end up taking forever to complete the vote end up going to the Dem. It should be roughly 50/50.

But we're talking about Republicans here. Maricopa county is a Republican county and it's Republicans running elections. Moreover, up until this election, Arizona government was dominated by Republicans - governor, both state houses and the AG. So it's Republicans that oversaw everything, and it's Republicans investigating everything now.

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But we're talking about Republicans here. Maricopa county is a Republican county and it's Republicans running elections. Moreover, up until this election, Arizona government was dominated by Republicans - governor, both state houses and the AG. So it's Republicans that oversaw everything, and it's Republicans investigating everything now

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So, AZ is going blue?

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Maricopa county is a Republican county and it's Republicans running elections.

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Phoenix is DOMINATED by liberal dems politically, the people running the elections here are liberal dems.

sort of like the 2020 election with the most popular president in history...

"81,000,000 votes"

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So, AZ is going blue?

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The Arizona senate and house have been controlled by Republicans for over 30 years, and will continue to be after this election.

I believe our congressional delegation is 6 Reps and 3 Dems. These 2022 races consolidated went Republican 56 to 43.

We've had Dem governors before. Janet Napalitano was the AZ governor for two terms before Obama picked her to run DHS. We've had others.

We've had Dem senators before, but this is the first time we have two Dem senators that I can remember (I moved here in 1985). Re our senators, Republicans have put up total retards opposed to Sinema and Kelly. We would have beaten Kelly this year if we had a better candidate. He was very vulnerable and had Biden as a lead weight around his neck. In 2020, he beat Martha McSally who was awful, and also the Republican Sinema beat in 2018.

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But we're talking about Republicans here. Maricopa county is a Republican county and it's Republicans running elections. Moreover, up until this election, Arizona government was dominated by Republicans - governor, both state houses and the AG. So it's Republicans that oversaw everything, and it's Republicans investigating everything now.

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Please stop insulting our intelligence and trying to play the role of the conservative who is simply demanding proof bc it’s obvious that you’re cherry picking and omitting facts to support your narrative. Everyone knows by now that the GOPe is just as complicit as Dems in the mutual goal to quash the America First populist movement. Sure, many of these people are GOP but you keep avoiding crucial facts.

The man in charge of Maricopa Co's disastrous elections is Stephen Richer.

He ran an anti-Kari Lake PAC.

AZ Sun Times: ALL expenditures from Richer's PAC were spent telling Arizonans NOT to vote for Lake.

Maricopa County Recorder Stephen Richer is coming under increasing scrutiny after the botched election in Maricopa County, leading some to question his founding and operation of the Pro-Democracy Republicans PAC, which engaged in partisan opposition to Republican gubernatorial nominee Kari Lake in the 2022 election cycle.

While Richer’s PAC claims to support Republicans, it has received money from a man who donates to almost exclusively Democrats. Francis Najafi gave $20,000 to his PAC, $60,000 to the Arizona Democratic Party, and $5,300 to Democratic Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, who is running for governor.