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Started By
Message
re: Madison County, MS sheriff's deputy shoots and kills man UPDATE PAGE 9 - Self defense
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:43 pm to theenemy
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:43 pm to theenemy
quote:
You perceived a threat due to an intruder which is reasonable even though you don't see a weapon. Your perception is the what is taken into account when determining justification same as an officer.
So lets say I am sitting in my house watching tv. I hear someone breaking into my house, and pull my weapon out and fire at the perceieved threat.
You are sitting inside your stack ready to enter a home for which you have a no-knock warrant. You break in and return fire because the first guy in the stack goes down and is killed. The homeowner magically survives.
Do you think the homeowner faces charges?
1
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:46 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
I don’t pull the trigger unless that threat materializes.
What constitutes a threat materializing?
Coming forward toward you?
Not showing you his hands?
Approaching your family members?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:48 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Do you think the homeowner faces charges?
Yes...you fired blindly at a sound.
No one would consider that reasonable.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:49 pm to theenemy
quote:
What constitutes a threat materializing?
Pulling a weapon. Coming at me or my family. Basically a deliberate act of violence.
I wouldn’t fault LE for drawing or using an weapon in a similar circumstance.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:50 pm to theenemy
quote:If it hits a person who is charging into one’s residence unannounced, then it’s not blindly firing at a sound.
Yes...you fired blindly at a sound.
No one would consider that reasonable.
Blindly firing at a sound wouldn’t be much of a news story because it would end up hitting no one in most instances.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:52 pm to theenemy
quote:No. I’m not saying it’s only the police, but it’s disproportionate when it happens, and if you subtract wrongful convictions from wrongful acquittals, then it’s not even close, possibly even negative for the regular citizen.
Are you saying police are the only ones slipping through the cracks?
There are plenty of criminals that beat charges.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:52 pm to theenemy
quote:
Yes...you fired blindly at a sound.
Someone breaking into my home tends to make a lot of noise, yes. Its telling you dont think thats a reasonable threat.
I guess the perceived fears of officers must be more reasonable than the fears of the average public, of course.
This post was edited on 6/10/18 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:53 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
Pulling a weapon. Coming at me or my family. Basically a deliberate act of violence.
Does he have to pull a weapon or can approaching you or your family be enough for you to perceive them a threat?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:54 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Someone breaking into my home tends to make a lot of noise, yes. Its telling you dont think thats a reasonable threat.
because it's not
You have no idea what you are shooting at.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:56 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
it hits a person who is charging
That's not what was proposed.
What was proposed was shooting at a noise from outside
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:59 pm to anc
quote:
Law enforcement and the military are full of some of the worst of society. When people say that they won't confiscate guns or turn on the American people, I laugh.
And you base this upon what exactly. I can’t speak for LE or other branches of the service but I can say that for the most part the Marines are absolutely the best Society has to offer. Granted there will be some bad apples but the Officer Corps is beyond solid. In fact I can tell you that you had a better chance getting accepted into an Ivy League school than to earn a full NROTC scholarship (over 2,400 applications and only 6 awarded in my year group).
This post was edited on 6/10/18 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:02 pm to theenemy
quote:
because it's not
You have no idea what you are shooting at.
Theres no shortage of case law where the percieved threat isnt cleared up until after the fact.
Courts generally like to protect their officers by focusing on the percieved part before growing the threat part at trial, which most cases never get to.
This post was edited on 6/10/18 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:02 pm to theenemy
quote:
Does he have to pull a weapon or can approaching you or your family be enough for you to perceive them a threat?
If someone is trespassing in my home and I see a weapon, I’m shooting. If they make a move toward my family or me instead of leaving, I’m shooting.
In public, I have no interest in drawing my weapon let alone firing it unless my life or family members life is at risk (meaning, if I don’t use this gun, there’s a high probability I will die).
This post was edited on 6/10/18 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:04 pm to theenemy
quote:
That's not what was proposed.
What was proposed was shooting at a noise from outside
So lets say the noise is from the door coming down?
Do you politely ask the intruders to leave before pulling your weapon?
This post was edited on 6/10/18 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:07 pm to theenemy
quote:
I just think you can't have 2 different standards. Either everyone is innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent.
And in cops’ case, they’re always innocent.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:09 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Theres no shortage of case law where the percieved threat isnt cleared up until after the fact.
How do you want to clear up perception before the fact?
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:11 pm to theenemy
quote:What? This is the post you responded to:
That's not what was proposed.
What was proposed was shooting at a noise from outside
quote:How do you get “just shooting at a noise from that?”
You are sitting inside your stack ready to enter a home for which you have a no-knock warrant. You break in and return fire because the first guy in the stack goes down and is killed. The homeowner magically survives.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:13 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
So lets say the noise is from the door coming down?
Ok what else do you see and hear?
Are the police recognizable as police? Are they announcing themselves as police?
If so, then it isn't considered reasonable to shoot that them.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:15 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
How do you get “just shooting at a noise from that?”
Why did you leave this part of the post out...
quote:
So lets say I am sitting in my house watching tv. I hear someone breaking into my house, and pull my weapon out and fire at the perceieved threat.
This post was edited on 6/10/18 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 6/10/18 at 3:16 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:Do you think the quality of the pool of applicants is exactly the same for an Ivy League School and an ROTC scholarship with relatively few applications?
In fact I can tell you that you had a better chance getting accepted into an Ivy League school than to earn a full NROTC scholarship (over 2,400 applications and only 6 awarded in my year group).
Because if they aren’t, you can’t just compare the odds of one thing to the other and draw conclusions if they are fundamentally different.
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