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Started By
Message
re: Liberals: what is the cutoff point where tax cuts for the rich isn't "trickle down"?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:24 pm to Pettifogger
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:24 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
define very low
It's subjective but most Americans have a 10% or less effective tax rate. Your rate doesn't surpass 10% until you earn six figures worth of income, at which point your effective rate rises very gradually in proportion to income. Of course, all of this depends on marital status and kids, but you get the point.
1
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:26 pm to Pettifogger
We subsidize the bottom 20% and it's not until we get to the 95th that effective tax rates reach over 10%.
Of course, when the government is robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's also effectively more than what's published. Bottom line though is a tax break HAS to help the rich unless you want to subsidize.
Of course, when the government is robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's also effectively more than what's published. Bottom line though is a tax break HAS to help the rich unless you want to subsidize.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:34 pm to bisonduck
quote:
We subsidize the bottom 20% and it's not until we get to the 95th that effective tax rates reach over 10%
shouldn't we be tackling that problem first. Get rid of the so called 'earned income credit' free cash give away. Everyone should have to pay some income taxes no matter how low the income. It should be a duty of having the priviledge of being an American citizen. Once we tackle the problem of the bottom end of the income spectrum not paying taxes should we look at raising taxes on the upper end of the income spectrum by elminating all the loopholes they utilize. It's the middle that gets crushed.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:41 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
shouldn't we be tackling that problem first. Get rid of the so called 'earned income credit' free cash give away. Everyone should have to pay some income taxes no matter how low the income. It should be a duty of having the priviledge of being an American citizen. Once we tackle the problem of the bottom end of the income spectrum not paying taxes should we look at raising taxes on the upper end of the income spectrum by elminating all the loopholes they utilize. It's the middle that gets crushed.
Agree to disagree. When you start looking at effective income tax rates, it's the middle class that actually gets a pretty good deal. Most households in this country aren't paying more than 10%.
The upper income earners are already paying for most of the government as it stands. The bottom 20% are being subsidized. The money is in the middle class.
If you lower the rates on the upper class substantially, you will have to raise rates on the middle class. There's isn't much money to get from the bottom 20%.
This post was edited on 5/19/17 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:03 pm to cahoots
quote:
Agree to disagree. When you start looking at effective income tax rates, it's the middle class that actually gets a pretty good deal. Most households in this country aren't paying more than 10%.
The upper income earners are already paying for most of the government as it stands. The bottom 20% are being subsidized. The money is in the middle class.
If you lower the rates on the upper class substantially, you will have to raise rates on the middle class. There's isn't much money to get from the bottom 20%.
I agree to an extent. If the government is going to write IOUs to the SSA trust fund then they are effectively taxing the people through entitlements. FICA is a regressive tax but philosophically I am okay with that since they benefit the most from the program. However, if it's used for the annual budget, it's a tax on the middle class.
The bottom line for me is the tax code should have incentives for upward mobility at the bottom 20%. Income credits are disastrous to that end.
I also don't like the idea that someone can live off royalty income and escape FICA and avoid higher capital gains rates than the high wage earner.
Overall, our tax system is a hodgepodge mess of compromises due to bullshite partisan politics. No reasonable personal can look at it from a 30k foot view and determine anything else.
This post was edited on 5/19/17 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:21 pm to bisonduck
Try being a single person making 60k and get back to me about the middle class not paying much in taxes
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:25 pm to boxcar willie
After state tax federal tax and Social Security tax I get to keep 61% of what i earn.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:25 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Try being a single person making 60k and get back to me about the middle class not paying much in taxes
The middle class is actually where all the money is in terms of aggregate. They have much more than the rich because there just aren't that many millionaires in America. The poor don't have any money by definition, other than the money the govt gives them.
The middle class is the huge bulge in the bell curve. So, they are the target when govt wants real money.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:28 pm to The First Cut
So your answer is just to keep running a deficit and adding to the dept. We're not going to get there just by cutting spending alone
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:32 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Try being a single person making 60k and get back to me about the middle class not paying much in taxes
The most you could be paying is 18%. That's if you're doing nothing to take deductions. I essentially said because of fica, the middle class gets screwed.
This post was edited on 5/19/17 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:37 pm to boxcar willie
which I wouldn't even mind just keeping 50% if the money wasn't being wasted on stupid shite like earned income credits, SSD for bums, ridiculous movie industry tax credits and other stupid state income tax credits, tax cuts for the rich who already have to many loopholes, and exsorbent military spending.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:44 pm to bisonduck
quote:
The most you could be paying is 18%. That's if you're doing nothing to take deductions. I essentially said because of fica, the middle class gets screwed.
I don't itemize, but how come do I only get 61% and still only get back about a $1000 fed, and $400 state, at the end of the year? I'm not getting health care or 401k or anything like that taken out either. Just Fed tax, state tax, FICA, and dues(2%).
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:46 pm to boxcar willie
What state are you in?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:53 pm to bisonduck
quote:
Overall, our tax system is a hodgepodge mess of compromises due to bullshite partisan politics
just simplify it, all these deductions and credit giveaways need to go. Should just be a straight up 10% for everyone, regardless of how many kids you have, with no deductions or credit give backs, then gradually go up to a top rate of about 40%. Everyone pays. No deductions for your kids, your mortgage interest, your office in the house, the use of your car (all that gets abused so eliminate it), the camp and boat allegedly for your business, etc.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:54 pm to bisonduck
quote:
What state are you in?
Louisiana
Posted on 5/19/17 at 4:07 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Fun Fact: In the 50s The richest people in this country were taxed in the 90% range.
nope. And you're ignorant for believing that.
Yes, the top tax bracket back then was 90% or higher. Effective tax rate might have been less because the rich used tax shelters to avoid taxes, but the rate was definitely at and sometimes above 90%.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 4:18 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Louisiana
your withholding rates should be:
Federal 20%
state 6%
Fica 6.3%
Medicare 1.45%
It looks like unemployment insurance there is paid by the employer only.
Not sure why they would be taking 40%.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 4:26 pm to cahoots
quote:
Your rate doesn't surpass 10% until you earn six figures worth of income,
Sorry, but where are you guys getting this number from? I've seen a few posts making this claim. Based on my personal taxes and about anyone else I know that I've talked taxes with, the claim that "most people" or that people making under 6 figures have an effective tax rate under 10%, is completely false.
I've never heard this under 10% claim before, so I'm just curious, where are y'all getting this statistic?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 4:33 pm to Tigereye10005
quote:
Sorry, but where are you guys getting this number from? I've seen a few posts making this claim. Based on my personal taxes and about anyone else I know that I've talked taxes with, the claim that "most people" or that people making under 6 figures have an effective tax rate under 10%, is completely false.
I've never heard this under 10% claim before, so I'm just curious, where are y'all getting this statistic?
If you want to geek out on the numbers here you go:
LINK
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