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Started By
Message
re: LIBERALs ONLY = Can you articulate a reason for NOT = Build That Wall
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:01 am to ChineseBandit58
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:01 am to ChineseBandit58
LOL OP asks for liberals only and every sheep on the board commences to posting what they think a liberal would say.
Stay classy my wooly friends. I'm sure fox news will give you your answer if you watch it enough.
Stay classy my wooly friends. I'm sure fox news will give you your answer if you watch it enough.
0
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:04 am to Salmon
quote:
will require another colossal waste of money when it is eventually torn down
oh that puppy ain't coming down
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:07 am to ChineseBandit58
The wall is not the only answer.
Yes I believe it should be built. But other things should be done as well.
I believe the military should be given the task of securing the border. If securing the border is not a task for them what is? It is more important than using them to impose our will on other countries. It is the most important facet of the defense of this nation.
Everify needs to be used for everyone. Including citizens. If someone enters legally and has a 24 month visa then at then end of 24 months their employer should not be allowed to pay them until they get a new visa. If a new visa is not granted then they must return to their home country. Failure to do so results in immediate deportation and their being listed with everify as not being eligible to ever enter the country again. When the visa expires then they also would be ineligible to obtain housing, wire money, and their drivers license would be suspended.
If caught inside the country after this deportation the penalty is death.
These combined actions would severely reduce the illegal invasion. They money spent on them getting EBT, housing, medical care, educating their children will easily pay for the program.
Yes I believe it should be built. But other things should be done as well.
I believe the military should be given the task of securing the border. If securing the border is not a task for them what is? It is more important than using them to impose our will on other countries. It is the most important facet of the defense of this nation.
Everify needs to be used for everyone. Including citizens. If someone enters legally and has a 24 month visa then at then end of 24 months their employer should not be allowed to pay them until they get a new visa. If a new visa is not granted then they must return to their home country. Failure to do so results in immediate deportation and their being listed with everify as not being eligible to ever enter the country again. When the visa expires then they also would be ineligible to obtain housing, wire money, and their drivers license would be suspended.
If caught inside the country after this deportation the penalty is death.
These combined actions would severely reduce the illegal invasion. They money spent on them getting EBT, housing, medical care, educating their children will easily pay for the program.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:13 am to ChineseBandit58
I'm not a liberal, but the reason liberals oppose a wall, or any other serious form of border control is simple.
Votes. It's that simple. The Dems know that a good portion of Americans do not support their agenda and so they need a new source of voters who will to remain in power.
Always remember that all you are to Democrats is a vote. They don't give a shite about you as a human being.
Votes. It's that simple. The Dems know that a good portion of Americans do not support their agenda and so they need a new source of voters who will to remain in power.
Always remember that all you are to Democrats is a vote. They don't give a shite about you as a human being.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:23 am to ChineseBandit58
Easy.
It would be a $32 billion ineffective symbol.
Just a political ploy.
The Great Wall of China, Ne Plus Ultra, the Maginot line, the Nazi Atlantic Wall, and Saddam's huge sand berms all proved to be ineffective and, except for Saddam's, expensive.
It would be a $32 billion ineffective symbol.
Just a political ploy.
The Great Wall of China, Ne Plus Ultra, the Maginot line, the Nazi Atlantic Wall, and Saddam's huge sand berms all proved to be ineffective and, except for Saddam's, expensive.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:24 am to ChineseBandit58
People are people, like..we're all the same.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:28 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
Same thing can be said about potential voter ID laws. I mean if we’re gonna cut the shite, that works both ways, let’s get to it.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:35 am to BUGAtGOAT
quote:
if it cuts illegal immigration down 75
If you actually believe a wall is going to cut illegal immigration by anywhere close to 75%, you're incredibly naive.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:35 am to BUGAtGOAT
Just who calculated the net zero effect? And what was their methodology?
Posted on 9/12/18 at 10:47 am to Dale51
quote:
No that is not facts. The number is unknown...why? Because no one knows the actual number.
But I bet you're more than willing to quote numbers on how much illegal immigrants cost US taxpayers every year. Or you take the highest number of estimated illegals and use that.
We know most immigrants came here legally because when arrested, we can track their attendance on flights, cruise ships, work visas, etc.
And, keep in mind, the terrorists that have done the most damage were all here legally, from Saudi Arabia. Killed thousands and cost this country billions. What are we doing about that? Nothing.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:39 am to TigerMyth36
quote:
I always hopped he was angling for a massive increase in funding to border patrol / policing.
border patrol/policing doesn't work when policies like catch and release can and are implemented.
Will a wall keep out 100% of illegal border crossers? Of course not, but it will certainly reduce them by > 70%. Breeders and Children wont be able to climb it.
That alone will save taxpayers many billions every year more than the wall could ever cost.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:41 am to Dale51
quote:
So, you're all MAGA on the wall and it's concept, it's just who pays that has you thinking "no"?
Yes, especially because Trump promised several times over that Mexico would foot the bill.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:43 am to Salmon
quote:
Well no.
I think the government has proven time and time again that it is poorly ran and never comes within close of its budget. I don't consider that a belief to be controversial.
The majority of illegals immigrant do come here legally then over stay their temporary visas. That is facts.
And a giant wall would destroy habitats. It's a wall.
None of those points are "unproven or vague"
It is not facts at all. It is actually a guess. Do you have an accurate number of the amount of illegal immigrants that are sneaking in to this country? Obviously not. No one does, that is kind of the problem.
While you are right that millions of illegals did come here legally at first and then overstay, that has nothing to do with the future. Additionally, we have SOME control over who we let in through these visa programs, through vetting. And most importantly, we can regulate that number. Some control is far better than an open door policy.
Quick question, and this goes back to Trumps infamous saying about "not their best people", Which is more likely? A highly established and successful Mexican (think doctor, attorney, businessman) is going to enter our country through which channels? The legal route or in the back of a u-haul fan with 30 others? Is he going to go through the system or swim the Rio Grande?
Another quick question, what type of person do you assume is illegally sneaking in to our country? Those with great work ethics and valuable skills? If so, why have they not risen to the top or fought to make their own country better?
Habitat? Through the amazingly fertile desert? This is a new one to me.
And the infamous, people will just climb it. Well that may be true. The wall may not have 100% efficiency. So, we shouldn't build it? Do you truly believe that a giant wall will not stop the vast majority of illegal immigrants sneaking in to this country? Tunnels? Please.
Here is what most miss I believe. So a person is able to climb the wall......... How many illegal guns will they be able to bring with them? How many pounds of drugs will they be able to carry over that wall?
PS. Ask Israel about walls.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:45 am to BayouBlitz
quote:So, you are saying that we can effectively track the entrance of those who are dumb enough to get caught.
We know most immigrants came here legally because when arrested, we can track their attendance on flights, cruise ships, work visas, etc.
I suspect that those who are SMART enough to NOT get caught would tend to enter the country by some better means than wandering through the deserts of the Southwest.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:46 am to RogerThis
Roger this, it is simple math.
We spend more EVERY YEAR supporting illegals in our country than the wall will cost to build.
Pay for the cost ONE TIME, and reduce our spending costs for eternity. Even if Mexico does not pay a single dime, it will save our tax payers an unfathomable amount of money over time.
We spend more EVERY YEAR supporting illegals in our country than the wall will cost to build.
Pay for the cost ONE TIME, and reduce our spending costs for eternity. Even if Mexico does not pay a single dime, it will save our tax payers an unfathomable amount of money over time.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:57 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
cost?
effectiveness?
environmental concerns?
esthetics?
eminent domain?
You hit the major points I have.
Cost is subjective to the person. If you believe the $ spent is worth the potential decline of fraudulent welfare then I cant complain. I dont think it will save that much money because we have a much bigger issues with expired visas. But it's a toss up.
Effectiveness is very questionable. The wall wont compensate for overstays. And there are other ways to get across the border (Canada crossovers, islands like Cuba , tunneling, etc.). Do some research on how creative some have become.
As Tigermyth said, you need military support to patrol the border wall. That's the only reason modern fortifications are effective.
I'm surprised nobody has said anything about Eminent Domain. People are going to lose their land.
You can build the wall but I honestly dont think it will be the best long term solution. And once the Democrats take over...... it may be a destroyed.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 12:15 pm to Balloon Huffer
quote:
Another quick question, what type of person do you assume is illegally sneaking in to our country? Those with great work ethics and valuable skills? If so, why have they not risen to the top or fought to make their own country better?
Mexico shares the same curse with less developed countries in that "hard workers" are usually never given chance to reach their true potential. The system is VERY CORRUPT. The stories from people who live or lived their verify it.
Problems like votes being bought, de facto gang rule, economic caste system, etc.
I agree they need to come here legally, but this isn't a greedy pauper situation in most cases.
quote:
Here is what most miss I believe. So a person is able to climb the wall......... How many illegal guns will they be able to bring with them? How many pounds of drugs will they be able to carry over that wall?
PS. Ask Israel about walls.
They can get illegal drugs here because we have have Americans helping them. Things like Drug Catapults exist.
Misconceptions regarding Mexico US drug trade
quote:
we could snap our fingers and halt all drug trafficking through Central America’s “Northern Triangle” region, it would have no effect on the opioid crisis devastating communities across the United States. U.S. officials estimate that 90 to 94 percent of heroin consumed in the United States today comes from Mexico, which is now producing about 70 tons per year. Another four to six percent comes from Asia, principally Afghanistan, the origin of most heroin consumed elsewhere in the world. About two percent of heroin that reaches the United States comes from Colombia, and a negligible amount is made in Guatemala.
As for Israel, they have armed forces at their wall. We will need to do the same thing.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 12:23 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
alphaandomega
Good ideas.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 12:52 pm to Loserman
quote:
it will certainly reduce them by > 70%. Breeders and Children wont be able to climb it
Wow, you honestly believe that?
This post was edited on 9/12/18 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 9/12/18 at 1:43 pm to ChineseBandit58
The cost of the project is outweighed by the suggested benefit
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