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Started By
Message
re: Left-Wing News Hired Hitman Charged W/ 2nd Degree Murder Of Patriot
Posted on 10/16/20 at 10:45 am to auggie
Posted on 10/16/20 at 10:45 am to auggie
quote:
He has shaved his beard, wearing more recent styles of clothes and hair,some people said that he had split with the girl in the photos. Almost seems like a different person. When I see something like that, it makes me wonder what happened. There is usually a new woman involved.
I would guess there’s no new woman. The lack of a woman is likely a big catalyst in his protest activities.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 10:45 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
The "not only 1 shot, unload into center mass" thing is for amateurs.
Professional personal security, doesn't end up in jail charged with murder.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 10:47 am to BoarEd
quote:quote:
None of that means that he drew the weapon with the specific intent of firing it
If he has had training as you say then he best have upholstered it with the intent to use it. You don't draw your piece otherwise.
Using and firing it can be separate actions.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 10:50 am to Tiguar
quote:
The problem is all this misses the point. In order to make the shot he made in the short amount of time between draw to fire, he had to have intent to aim at the head from the moment he drew.
And based on the fact Dolloff had appeared earlier to have been surveilling Keltner and that it further appears that Dolloff and his fellow conspirators appeared to be stalking Keltner, it indeed seems probable that the decision to target and confront Keltner with deadly force was made well before Keltner ever engaged with the Producer.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 10:53 am to the808bass
quote:
I would guess there’s no new woman. The lack of a woman is likely a big catalyst in his protest activities.
I can see just being out there, to be hanging out and maybe running into some chicks, but to actually become radicalized? I would think that it would take more than boredom to cause that.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 10:59 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Using and firing it can be separate actions.
I agree.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:14 am to AggieHank86
You call it hotdogging because you are (at best) ill informed. If I was less polite I would call you an absolute and utter moron.
Professionals see the context clues from frame 871. It is a dead give away as it shows the beginning of an immediate action drill that should have terminated when the target (Keltner) showed he he did not possess the means to be a lethal threat (mace in dominant hand) nor was taking further aggressive actions (backing away with hands by his side).
But Dolloff had already mentally killed Keltner at that point. He simply needed to complete the mechanics of the drill he had practiced multiple times over. That is why professionals go through these mind numbing repetitions. To ensure they do them without thought or hesitation. They have to remove the humanity of their "opponent" so they can be skillful in the execution of their task.
Don't rend your garments Hank. He is a nobody to you. Just an image on a page. But he was a human being with value and worth to the rest of us how have a shred of humanity to us.

Professionals see the context clues from frame 871. It is a dead give away as it shows the beginning of an immediate action drill that should have terminated when the target (Keltner) showed he he did not possess the means to be a lethal threat (mace in dominant hand) nor was taking further aggressive actions (backing away with hands by his side).
But Dolloff had already mentally killed Keltner at that point. He simply needed to complete the mechanics of the drill he had practiced multiple times over. That is why professionals go through these mind numbing repetitions. To ensure they do them without thought or hesitation. They have to remove the humanity of their "opponent" so they can be skillful in the execution of their task.
Don't rend your garments Hank. He is a nobody to you. Just an image on a page. But he was a human being with value and worth to the rest of us how have a shred of humanity to us.

Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:21 am to Wolfhound45
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but we shouldn't pretend that Keltner was nonaggressive.
Did he deserve to die for his actions? I don't believe so, but there will be criticism of his actions brought up by the defense and those need to be viewed objectively.
Did he deserve to die for his actions? I don't believe so, but there will be criticism of his actions brought up by the defense and those need to be viewed objectively.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:24 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Keltner approached them and loudly and aggressively told them he did not want to be filmed.
Dolloff aggressively reached out with both hands on his torso (possibly to make contact with his concealed pistol).
Keltner aggressively slapped him away and then backed off.
Dolloff drew his pistol and shot him.
Sorry brother, that is not even remotely justifiable.
Dolloff aggressively reached out with both hands on his torso (possibly to make contact with his concealed pistol).
Keltner aggressively slapped him away and then backed off.
Dolloff drew his pistol and shot him.
Sorry brother, that is not even remotely justifiable.
This post was edited on 10/16/20 at 11:26 am
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:25 am to auggie
It's why I have drills in my training where a draw doesn't result in firing the weapon.
Too many instructors hammer home the point that if you draw, you fire. That's foolish, in my opinion.
That's how you get situations like this, where touching the front of his shirt meant that a headshot was the only path his brain would take.
Too many instructors hammer home the point that if you draw, you fire. That's foolish, in my opinion.
That's how you get situations like this, where touching the front of his shirt meant that a headshot was the only path his brain would take.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:28 am to Wolfhound45
He also supposedly told them he was going to frick them up. I don't think we really know everything that was said.
And he didn't slap him away. He struck him in the side of the head.
It isn't necessary to minimize Keltner's actions here.
And he didn't slap him away. He struck him in the side of the head.
It isn't necessary to minimize Keltner's actions here.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:29 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
possibly to make contact with his concealed pistol
This sort of conjecture will absolutely go both ways at trial.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:29 am to Wolfhound45
I think DB's point is Dolloff's defense will put Keltners actions "on trial" because that is their job and they will have some things to point out. I would expect and hope for my representation to do the same should it be necessary.
That said, I dont think DB expects the defense to be successful in their attempt to justify Dolloff's actions with Keltner's.
That said, I dont think DB expects the defense to be successful in their attempt to justify Dolloff's actions with Keltner's.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:30 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Glad to have a very experienced Marine combat veteran in this mix. But have you been tracking the Newman/Dolloff stalking of Keltner? The fact that Richardson/Elliot were going around working altercations at the conclusion of the Patriot Muster? A total of four of them?
This was no random event DB. It was a set up.
This was no random event DB. It was a set up.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:31 am to Tiguar
Yes, pretty much this.
It's unfortunate that the man lost his life here, but as I said earlier, Keltner will be on trial when this goes down.
It's unfortunate that the man lost his life here, but as I said earlier, Keltner will be on trial when this goes down.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:33 am to Wolfhound45
I've seen a lot of that information, but I don't think any prosecutor would want to touch it.
It may be accurate, but it's hard to sift through what's legit and what's pure speculation.
It may be accurate, but it's hard to sift through what's legit and what's pure speculation.
Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:33 am to Bobby OG Johnson
LINK ]Denver Protest Shooting Update: Lee Keltner’s Family Releases Statement On Announcement Of Charges.... ‘A Positive First Step’


Posted on 10/16/20 at 11:33 am to DisplacedBuckeye
I am not minimizing him in the least bit. He hit him aggressively and hard after Dolloff put his hands on his torso very close to his concealed pistol.
Still no reason to draw immediately afterwards.

Still no reason to draw immediately afterwards.

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