re: Ledell Lee case is one reason I can't support the death penalty

quote:

---

pro DP is more of a big government stance than anything.

---

No, but opposition to immigration is.

The question at hand is one of simple justice. You alluded earlier to property rights. Those rights entail a need for a system of justice. The same is true of enforcement of personal rights.

In a situation where guilt is unquestionable, what should the penalty be for premeditated murder? If that penalty is limited to life in prison, what deterrence is there for murder of opportunity (opportunity defined as ability to carry out the act before armed guards can intercede) for lifers in prison?

quote:

---

Are you familiar with the thesis of a singularity preceding the big bang?

---

Yes.

Also, Foo, not ignoring you I will reply I'm just at work and answering shorter posts.

quote:

---

So we could get into Loop quantum gravity theories etc., but the point is something preceded origins of our current universe. Let's presume for argument's sake it was a singularity.

Given that postulate, what preceded the singularity? Something did. What were the physical laws and properties of that preexistence? What were the origins of those?

---

So far all I see are questions asked, not answers given.

And that's not a slight against you, theoretical physics is extremely complicated and not something that's likely going to properly discussed on a sports forum.

On top of all that, its theoretical. Which isn't a slight against those fields, it's just a reminder that you're not standing on solid ground.

quote:

---

In other words, essentially it follows that existence is reasonably assumed to be eternal.

---

I could, and probably do, agree with this.

quote:

---

The question is as to whether such eternal existence is inanimate at its core, or animate (God).

---

Another question.

quote:

---

In the instance of an eternal God, faith holds there is no preceding element or dichotomy of physical presence vs nature of presence. Each always existed.

---

Faith can be whatever the faith holder wants. My faith can hold that Biden is a lizard person.

Nothing in this post changes the definition of eternal. If God is eternal theres no point in time where he could have had a hand in deciding or creating his own nature, because that would mean prior to that point in time he either didn't exist or existed without a nature (whatever that would mean but I don't think Christians would accept the idea of their God being incomplete).

quote:

---

pretty much everything you have said is more left than me but you ar too dense to understand that.

---

You are anti-death penalty just like a Liberal bitch is.

quote:

---

pretty much everything you have said is more left than me but you ar too dense to understand that.

---

Name one thing I am left of you on.

Come on dumb boy, you can do it!

We know you like taxpayer money being spent on prisoners.

quote:

---

So God didn't have any control over what his nature is.

---

Absolute purity requires no control. Perfection requires no improvement. Faith holds both are eternal in God.

All this objective, subjective, and perfection talk has got me thinking.

Disclaimer, this could be an incredibly easy question to answer, it's just not coming to me right this second.

Wouldn't a perfectly evil being also be considered perfect?

How do we know what sort of perfection we're following? You cannot trust the perfect being's own word because it may be lying and you wouldn't be in any position to catch the lie.

Even granting God the attribute of perfection doesn't tell us much about morality as we don't know what end of the spectrum he occupies.

quote:

---

Wouldn't a perfectly evil being also be considered perfect?

---

Now you are questioning faith.

quote:

---

Even granting God the attribute of perfection doesn't tell us much about morality as we don't know what end of the spectrum he occupies.

---

Using an inaccurate analogy (as all humans are imperfect), it's kind of like saying you don't understand what end of the spectrum your mother occupies.

quote:

---

Also, I believe it costs more to get someone executed than it does to warehouse them to their natural death.

---

Artificial costs ginned up by creative capital defense attorneys.

But the idea of executing an innocent is horrifying and it would indeed happen.

quote:

---

There is 0 evidence that the death penalty is an effective crime deterrent.

---

In this country, you may be correct. But go looking around countries like Malaysia for graffiti. Or littering in other countries. You won't find any. Why? Because they beat the shite out of perps with a cane and they do it publicly. We, on the other hand let someone sit in prison for years or decades before finally dishing out punishment. No one remembers the perps name or his crime except family members.

This is not to say that I support the death penalty or that I'm against it. But I am most certainly saying that punishment can, and does, deter crime. Just depends on how and when it's administered.