re: Ledell Lee case is one reason I can't support the death penalty

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btw you arent a conservative you are a constitional libertarian or atleast mostly aligned with that. Welcome to the club

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I still don't think the Old Testament are the laws that our society centuries later should uphold.

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Maybe, maybe not. I believe God gave the freedom of governments to decide which laws they want to pass. However, all governments should be subject to Christ and seek to honor Him with their laws.

I'm not a theonomist who believes people should be stoned for adultery. But at the same time, I recognize that God is just and supports justice, and that it's not justice to allow a murderer to continue to live.

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You can't pick and choose which of the teaching you think are valid.

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Not arbitrarily, no. We have to interpret the Bible by the Bible and based on that principle, we have a good understanding of how to view the Old Testament laws. It's why I made the distinction between the civil, ceremonial, and moral laws.

The civil law applied to the nation of Israel, and the kingdom of God is more broad than Israel so those laws don't apply any longer. The ceremonial laws were to set the nation of Israel apart from other nations and to point to the coming messiah, Jesus. Jesus already came and fulfilled His work, and we are no longer set apart as a nation but as Christians from all nations and tribes, so the ceremonial laws no longer apply. The moral law is the true reflection of God's holy character that doesn't change and therefore we are required to keep that going forward. The 10 commandments are a summary of God's moral law.

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I would not put our justice system in the same realm as God's justice system. As with Noah, if God determines that people should die, that is a whole lot different if a judge or jury say so!

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I agree that human justice is not God's justice, yet our justice should reflect God's justice to the best of our ability. Condemnations are leveled against unjust judges in the Bible, so we need to seek justice according to God's word as best we can.

In regards to Noah, that wasn't specifically in relation to the flood, but the renewing of the creation mandate given to Noah. The blood for blood comment came after the flood, when Noah was to start the human race over again. He was given the principle of justice that was ignored prior to the flood, where man was taking life all over the place.

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Tell me where Jesus said that turning the other cheek only applies to insults. Mary Magdeline was sentenced to death, who saved her? Jesus didn't seem too worried about the law them!

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Turning the cheek wasn't a metaphor. It was in response to a slap in the face, which was an insult. The principle, though, is that we are not to get even with those who harm us. That's called revenge, and vengeance belongs to God.

Execution via the civil magistrate is not revenge; it's justice. It's why I also referenced Romans 13 to support that notion, because scripture interprets scriptures.

In regards to the story of Jesus saving the woman caught in adultery: Jesus was concerned about the law, which was the point of His calling on the one without sin casting the first stone. The law stipulated that both people caught in adultery were to be killed (Lev. 20:10) and yet those who caught the woman in adultery did not bring forward the man who was supposed to be stoned, as well. Jesus knew this and caught them in the trap that they set for Him. They wanted to see if He would violate the law and He showed them that they were already in violation of it by not bringing forth the man who was participating, as well.

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Jesus was talking to the Pharisees when speaking about the 10 Commandments and honor your mother and father. He was criticizing them for for selecting which laws and traditions should be followed. Using that as an example!

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I agree, and yet He still included the punishment as part of the law. Are you saying that Jesus didn't agree with it though it was God's word?

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Again, you take Matthew out of context. He was responding to one of his followers raising his sword to defend him. He also said his Father would protect him if he wanted to and he was trying to save his followers because he knew it was time for him to die for us.

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I didn't take the critique of Peter out of context at all. The context is what you said, yet Jesus still warned Peter that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. Clearly Peter didn't live by the sword since he only used it in that one instance to defend Christ, and yet Peter could have been condemned for attacking the servant of the high priest. Jesus healed him so that Peter would be free to do the work that Christ called him to do yet rebuked him for using the sword to stop the execution that was to take place. Jesus both saved Peter from execution as well as ensured His own execution would take place

And yes, Jesus could have called forth a legion of angels to defend Him and even kill those who tried to take Him, yet He didn't in order to ensure His own execution would happen.

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Of course he affirms Pilate, that was his path and he was the leader. And yes, he knew he came to die for us. He had no sin, but that was the whole point of the Passion.

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I'm glad you agree here, but again, my point wasn't mere to recount the events in the Bible but to support the authority of the government leaders to mete out justice, including executions.

Jesus didn't petition the government against executions because He knew they were 100% necessary for Him to accomplish His mission to be a sacrifice for sin. It wasn't a murder in the middle of the night by cloaked bandits; it was the very leadership and representatives of Israel, the Priests, and Rome that put Him to death through the official act of crucifixion.

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I live by the word of Christ. He made it very clear that we should forgive and turn our cheek to those that hurt us.

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So you are for shutting down the penal system, freeing all prisoners, and eliminating all civil penalties in the spirit of forgiveness.

E.g., Divorce? ... seeking settlement? ... Nah, a woman scorned should forgive and forget her spouses's multiple infidelities, and just walk away ... assuming she is a Christian.

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So you are for shutting down the penal system, freeing all prisoners, and eliminating all civil penalties in the spirit of forgiveness.

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Dude, follow along! We were talking about the death penalty. I never said anything about shutting down the penal system, I love how you just jump in and don't have any idea what you are talking about!

Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean who have to live with them! There are people I have forgiven, but don't have relationships anymore. Forgiveness is not being a coward!

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Dude, follow along!

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Dude follow along.
When you say "I live by the word of Christ. He made it very clear that we should forgive and turn our cheek to those that hurt us," there is an implication that anyone with a different approach does not "live by the word of Christ."

¿comprende?
That, my dear, will get others who actually do know what we are talking about, to "jump in".

If the Death Penalty is too scary, just say it.
But if instead you attempt to wrap yourself up in a "turn the other cheek" Biblical meme as a claimed basis for your position, Sorry! You're going to get called on it.

Apparently it didn't occur to you that "turn the other cheek" extrapolates to nearly ANY offense. Right? ... and, that in turn implies you would support elimination of the penal system.

So are you for turning the other cheek, or not?

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Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean who have to live with them!

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Of course not. But that really isn't the issue now, is it?
Divorce is the issue you're addressing.

Divorce involves forced alimony, forced asset allocation, custody arrangements, etc. Simply "turning the other cheek" would obviously exclude those things. It sounds like you'd actually oppose turning the other cheek in such a situation.

All this leaves you in the rather exposed position of supporting "turn the other cheek" in instances of murder, but not in lesser cases of infidelity, or various criminal offenses, etc.

So rather than wrapping yourself up in a holier-than-thou contrivance, just say execution of an unquestionable murderer feels icky to you. Or it just doesn't feel good. or it feels mean.